Obamacare: Say goodbye to Grandma and the grandkids!

citygirl said:
Shrug - I have a different take. Our biz is the US is picking up and clients are hiring. I'm not saying it's good by any means but we're pretty sure we've seen the bottom. Housing sales are up as well which is usually a pretty good indicator that the bottom has been hit.

The world is changing and I don't think the US is going to be the "only superpower" out there but I hardly think it's as dire as some people make it out to be.

I feel and believe that it is the calm before the storm. There will be a bigger crash soon in the USA and many countries are desperately liquidating their dollar holdings. If you look at the great crash of the 1930s there was a crash a slight recovery another crash etc etc etc.

I suggest that all that hold dollars buy gold , silver, land or convert your dollars into safer currencies. The clock is 5 minutes to midnight.
 
citygirl said:
Shrug - I have a different take. Our biz is the US is picking up and clients are hiring. I'm not saying it's good by any means but we're pretty sure we've seen the bottom. Housing sales are up as well which is usually a pretty good indicator that the bottom has been hit.

Opinions vary. The "housing sales increase" is a statistical deception. There's a plethora of articles on the net like this one. Or better, this one.
 
I don't necessarily consider CounterPunch a reliable source. Everything I read says 2011 before the housing market stabilizes but I am cautiously optimistic. Unemployment also dropped from 9.5 to 9.4.

Look - we can all just agree to disagree. Some of you seem to think the US is on the verge of implosion. I don't see it but you know what they say about opinions - everyone has them.

I guess time will tell who is correct.
 
pericles said:
I feel and believe that it is the calm before the storm. There will be a bigger crash soon in the USA and many countries are desperately liquidating their dollar holdings. If you look at the great crash of the 1930s there was a crash a slight recovery another crash etc etc etc.

I suggest that all that hold dollars buy gold , silver, land or convert your dollars into safer currencies. The clock is 5 minutes to midnight.

What about buying real estate in Argentina?
 
steveinbsas said:
And you seriously think the government is going to make it all better?

You seem to think it's not even worth trying or worse.
Personally, I think the system needs to be gutted and we need to start over again. Since, that ain't ganna happen the best option would be to copy the Swiss system. They have a good system worked out & they have top of the line health care.
 
bigbadwolf said:
The reality is that unless people takes to the streets in droves and there are mass demonstrations and civil disorder, nothing of substance is going to change.
And now we have an advocate for violent revolution - because the health reforms are, necessarily, a compromise!

The left and right-wing fundamentalists deserve each other; they should be armed with heavy sticks and put in a stadium together. Unfortunately they reserve most of their vitriol for those in the centre trying to get something done in a difficult world. And, as usual, it's the poor and vulnerable who suffer.
 
steveinbsas said:
Do you think the system will improve if gutted and rebuilt by the US government?

Look at the USPS.

Yes, look at the post office- its cheap, efficient, reliable, and serves EVERY address in the USA. It lost a couple billion last year.
Which means it should probably raise its price to 50 cents. But compared to its private competitors, the USPS is a bargain.

I have used UPS and FEDEX professionally, in my business, for 30 years now, had accounts with both since the late 80's.
Their reliability is no more than the post office- with UPS, I would say its lower. Of course, this is just based on shipping a few thousand boxes, not on science.
And their prices are 30 times or more.

Compared to the post office, which many people infer is a failure if it loses a Billion, we have- private industry- like the banks, which lost appoximately 1 Trillion last year.
They, however, are paragons of efficiency and prove the supremacy of private industry- just as soon as the government bails em out to the tune of $1 Trillion.

But it would be sacriledge to subsidise the post office, or the trains, in the USA, because... well, personally, I dont know.

I think that even if the USA spent $2 Billion a year indefinitely on the post office, it would more than pay off- you see, civilisation requires reliable infrastructure to flourish- capitalism requires a reliable way to send bills.
If capitalism in the USA didnt have that horrible, socialistic, inefficient post office actually delivering their bills, and instead relied on $10 per letter 2nd day air from UPS- things would be SO much better, right?

In reality, the US government does a BETTER job than private industry in dozens of categories.
The overhead on Social Security is under 1%.
The overhead on the cheapest private pension fund is between 5% and 10%.
Government builds cheaper freeways and dams, bridges and tunnels.
Government runs cheaper, better schools and universities, police departments and fire protection.
Parks. Forest and natural resource management.
Public Health- would you want a nice, pay as you go, system for communicable disease protection? You know, homeless people can have TB, Cholera, the Plague, and so on- If I have insurance, I am safe, right?
Government manages workers comp insurance better than private industry- again, just based on 30 years of having employees, not your high falutin right wing talking heads, who undoubtedly know more than me.
A Government run military runs rings around private mercenaries, for cost, quality, and most important, accountability.

In fact, that issue, accountability, is essential to almost all of the above, and many more.
Government run health care, like government run wars, mine safety, and, yes, postal delivery, is accountable to the citizens thru elected officials.
Private insurance is not.

I come back, every time, to my friends in Canada, the UK, France, Italy, Spain, Japan, Scandinavia, and elsewhere, who dont go bankrupt, dont die in the streets, are not broke as countries, and somehow actually LIKE their single payer systems. And which, each and every one COST LESS for MORE CARE.
It works, in every other civilized country- and yet, somehow, mysterious structural problems will make it fail in the USA?
 
harpo said:
And now we have an advocate for violent revolution - because the health reforms are, necessarily, a compromise!

The left and right-wing fundamentalists deserve each other; they should be armed with heavy sticks and put in a stadium together. Unfortunately they reserve most of their vitriol for those in the centre trying to get something done in a difficult world. And, as usual, it's the poor and vulnerable who suffer.

Are you American? There is no "centre"; it's another fabrication to allow for corrupt politicians to kowtow to private interests. People of the "centre" you refer to purport to defend the interests of common people but sell out to private interests each time and this stance is called "bipartisanship," "reasonable," "compromising," etc. A compromise between which opposing parties? No-one is standing up for the interests of common people with regard to health care. But private interests -- big pharma, insurance companies, HMOs, are fighting tooth-and-nail for their interests. We use the word "compromise" when we have contending parties which both have some power and credible threats -- for instance, a powerful labor union fighting a powerful corporation. In the case of health care, there is no-one fighting for the common interest; the "compromise" is a sell-out to private interests, and advocating this nonsense is called being of the "centre." Meanwhile, go on living in the cloud-cuckoo land of noble, pious but utterly impotent intentions of the liberals and Democrats, which somehow come a cropper each and every time. Such people are part of the problem. *Sigh*
 
Ries said:
Yes, look at the post office- its cheap, efficient, reliable, and serves EVERY address in the USA. It lost a couple billion last year.
Which means it should probably raise its price to 50 cents. But compared to its private competitors, the USPS is a bargain.

I have used UPS and FEDEX professionally, in my business, for 30 years now, had accounts with both since the late 80's.
Their reliability is no more than the post office- with UPS, I would say its lower. Of course, this is just based on shipping a few thousand boxes, not on science.
And their prices are 30 times or more.

Compared to the post office, which many people infer is a failure if it loses a Billion, we have- private industry- like the banks, which lost appoximately 1 Trillion last year.
They, however, are paragons of efficiency and prove the supremacy of private industry- just as soon as the government bails em out to the tune of $1 Trillion.

But it would be sacriledge to subsidise the post office, or the trains, in the USA, because... well, personally, I dont know.

I think that even if the USA spent $2 Billion a year indefinitely on the post office, it would more than pay off- you see, civilisation requires reliable infrastructure to flourish- capitalism requires a reliable way to send bills.
If capitalism in the USA didnt have that horrible, socialistic, inefficient post office actually delivering their bills, and instead relied on $10 per letter 2nd day air from UPS- things would be SO much better, right?

In reality, the US government does a BETTER job than private industry in dozens of categories.
The overhead on Social Security is under 1%.
The overhead on the cheapest private pension fund is between 5% and 10%.
Government builds cheaper freeways and dams, bridges and tunnels.
Government runs cheaper, better schools and universities, police departments and fire protection.
Parks. Forest and natural resource management.
Public Health- would you want a nice, pay as you go, system for communicable disease protection? You know, homeless people can have TB, Cholera, the Plague, and so on- If I have insurance, I am safe, right?
Government manages workers comp insurance better than private industry- again, just based on 30 years of having employees, not your high falutin right wing talking heads, who undoubtedly know more than me.
A Government run military runs rings around private mercenaries, for cost, quality, and most important, accountability.

In fact, that issue, accountability, is essential to almost all of the above, and many more.
Government run health care, like government run wars, mine safety, and, yes, postal delivery, is accountable to the citizens thru elected officials.
Private insurance is not.

I come back, every time, to my friends in Canada, the UK, France, Italy, Spain, Japan, Scandinavia, and elsewhere, who dont go bankrupt, dont die in the streets, are not broke as countries, and somehow actually LIKE their single payer systems. And which, each and every one COST LESS for MORE CARE.
It works, in every other civilized country- and yet, somehow, mysterious structural problems will make it fail in the USA?


The overhead of Social Security is one percent of what?...the unfunded trillions of dollars in obligations that must be paid by younger (working) Americans?

And you failed to mention medicare and medicaid, both of which would be in bankruptcy if they were private corporations. The proposed "insurance reform" entails huge cuts in medicare funding in spite of President Pinocchio's promises (he really is a puppet).

When are you going to realize that "insurance reform" as they now call it isn't about providing coverage for those who don't have it (or can't get it)?

It's about a gang of bureaucrats (presently in power) taking control of 20% of the US economy...and running peoples' lives like never before (at least in the US).

Have you discovered the provision in the House legislation that would require all pregnant women to meet with government counselors? Can you imagine a former postal worker who received a short course in family planning going to the home of an Amish or Mormon family to see if they are fit to be parents or are properly raising the kids they already have?

Perhaps (in the latter case) they could schedule it on "family home evening" and kill two birds with one stone.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Glenn Beck's home when that happens.
 
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