"outlaws": Do You Agree?

[Bajo_cero2]

Your lights appear to be on, but nobody's home.

Ajo, you had never ever express an idea, so...

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Ajo, you had never ever express an idea, so...

Try to write a complete sentence.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

If you read the decree signed by Néstor Kirchner it says:

Argentina doesn't give up the jurisdiction.

http://infoleg.mecon.gov.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/105000-109999/105641/norma.htm

 

[dennisr]

Your decree in New York is about as useless as balls on a bishop.
Read it and weep:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/914021/000095012305000302/y04567e424b5.htm

 

[ghost]

They didn't take it, so? They have old bonds.

Here. I will try to help you to understand. None of this restructured debt was Brady Bonds. Vultures hold CDRs and bonds. I hate the f...ing vultures and I think Singer is Shylock Pig. But what he did is legal. Also know that Nestors decrees are meaningless.
First restructuring (2005)




President Néstor Kirchner and Economy Minister Roberto Lavagna, who presented the first debt restructuring offer in 2005
In January 2005, the Argentine Government offered the first debt restructuring to affected bondholders; nearly 76% of the defaulted bonds (USD62.5 billion) were thus exchanged and brought out of default. The exchange offered longer term par, quasi-par, and discount bonds - the latter with a much lower nominal value (25–35% of the original). The majority of the Argentine bond market thereafter became based on GDP-linked bonds, and investors, both foreign and domestic, netted record yields amid renewed growth.[sup][32][/sup] One of the largest single investors in Argentine bonds following these developments was Venezuela, which bought a total of more than USD5 billion in restructured Argentine bonds from 2005 to 2007.[sup][33][/sup]
Argentina re-opens debt exchange in 2010

On April 15, 2010, the debt exchange was re-opened to bondholders who rejected the 2005 swap; 67% of these latter accepted the swap, leaving 7% as holdouts.[sup][1][/sup] Holdouts continued to put pressure on the government by attempting to seize Argentine assets abroad,[sup][34][/sup] and by suing to attach future Argentine payments on restructured debt to receive better treatment than cooperating creditors.[sup][2][/sup][sup][21][/sup][sup][35][/sup]
A total of approximately USD12.86 billion of eligible debt was tendered into the exchange launched in April 2010; this represented 69.5% of outstanding bonds still held by holdouts.[sup][36][/sup] A total of 152 types of bonds in seven different currencies under eight distinct jurisdictions were issued during the two debt exchanges.[sup][37][/sup] The 2010 re-opening thus brought the total amount of debt restructured to 92.6% (the original 2005 debt exchange restructured 76.2% of Argentine government debt in default since 2001). The final settlement of the 2010 debt exchange took place on August 11, for bondholders that didn't participate in the early tranche that closed on May 14 and settled on May 17.[sup][1][/sup]

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Your decree in New York is about as useless as balls on a bishop.
Read it and weep:

http://www.sec.gov/A...04567e424b5.htm

An RC bishop presumably not affiliated with the local Centro Pedófilo. Church of E might see matters differently.

 

[ghost]

If you read the decree signed by Néstor Kirchner it says:

Argentina doesn't give up the jurisdiction.

http://infoleg.mecon...05641/norma.htm

Common Terms of The New Securities​

The following terms will apply to all New Securities:​

Issuer The Republic of Argentina Securities Offered Pars due December 31, 2038: – U.S. dollar-denominated Pars (governed by New York law), – U.S. dollar-denominated Pars (governed by Argentine law), – Euro-denominated Pars (governed by English law), and – Peso-denominated Pars (governed by Argentine law). Discounts due December 31, 2033: – U.S. dollar-denominated Discounts (governed by New York law), – U.S. dollar-denominated Discounts (governed by Argentine law), – Euro-denominated Discounts (governed by English law), and – Peso-denominated Discounts (governed by Argentine law). Quasi-pars due December 31, 2045, denominated in pesos (governed by Argentine law).

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Apparently justice Lorenzetti does not believe in defying the law: http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/167771/rulings-must-be-complied-with-in-argentina-everywhere

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Sergio, the big issue began with the bonds enacted on the Brady's plan.

One of the conditions in those bonds was to give up the jurisdiction with no limit.

Those bonds were enacted by Menem and Cavallo, not by Néstor Kirchner.

When Kichner enacted the restructured bonds, he put limits. He kept the foreign jurisdiction BUT the sentence cannot be enforce by a foreign Court. This is a basic concept of international públic law. If you read the news, Griesa insist on negotiations instead of enforcing a sentence.

Also, if you read properly, it says that the jurisdiction is the NYC federal Court and the Argentine Courts. It also stablishes that if there is a conflict between States (for the enforcement of a sentence) the jurisdiction is on the Hague Court.

Also, there are limits on what assets can be on embargo (almost none).

You can read this in the decree i quoted plus the conditions of the bonds somebody posted:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/914021/000095012305000302/y04567e424b5.htm#113

http://infoleg.mecon.gov.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/105000-109999/105641/norma.htm

There is an article interesting there that says that the holdhouts are going to be on default indefinetly.

Ghost, i double check it and i think you are confused. The holdhouts didn't accept the bonds you are talking about.
They seems to have mainly Brady bonds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/movil/noticias/2012/10/121022_argentina_barco_ghana_bonos_brady_vh.shtml

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Common Terms of The New Securities​

The following terms will apply to all New Securities:​

Issuer The Republic of Argentina Securities Offered Pars due December 31, 2038: – U.S. dollar-denominated Pars (governed by New York law), – U.S. dollar-denominated Pars (governed by Argentine law), – Euro-denominated Pars (governed by English law), and – Peso-denominated Pars (governed by Argentine law). Discounts due December 31, 2033: – U.S. dollar-denominated Discounts (governed by New York law), – U.S. dollar-denominated Discounts (governed by Argentine law), – Euro-denominated Discounts (governed by English law), and – Peso-denominated Discounts (governed by Argentine law). Quasi-pars due December 31, 2045, denominated in pesos (governed by Argentine law).

Ghost, it is not smart to argue with a profesional.

You are confused, under the bonar (restructurated bonds), the foreign Court cannot enforce a sentence and the assets of Argentina cannot be seized (there is a list that includes almost everything).

However, there is something called públic law, whatever is against públic law is not written. The same happends with international públic law. This is ABC in law.

This is why the President says Griesa acted in excess of jurisdiction:

http://www.cfkargentina.com/pago-soberano-local-de-la-deuda-exterior-de-la-republica-argentina/