Pensionado Visa Peso requirement

[Jon D]

Good Morning,

I've been in Buenos Aires for a few months now and love it. I am retired military and can live quite comfortably here on my pension. I had a consultation with an immigration lawyer who said that while I meet the requirements for the Pensionado Visa, I would have to transfer my entire pension to an Argentinian account at the official rate. Are there ways to avoid doing this? I would lose too much money doing this to justify moving here. Please help it make sense.

Jon

 

[Alby]

Bear in mind that if you have to do it, you only have to do it for the three years of temporary pensionista residency. If your idea is to stay long-term (i.e., at the end of the third year convert the temporary residency into a permanent residency), you don't have to continue transferring these amounts once you've gained permanency. It's a three-year problem. Not good, of course, but it's not a rest-of-life problem.

By the way, the amount in question is a number equivalent to five times the minimum monthly salary in Argentina (a number that varies each month, as does the exchange rate). Did the lawyer explain to you how, given the volatility in both numbers, Migraciones calculate the amount?

Did your lawyer tell you would have to "to transfer my entire pension" because the amount of your pension by coincidence happens to be exactly the same as five times the minimum monthly salary (as of December, roughly US$2000)? If your pension is greater than $2000, you should be able to keep the balance at home.

 

[Alby]

Please help it make sense.

Since you've engaged a lawyer on the matter, perhaps you can help the rest of us make sense of it. The rule is a new one, introduced on June 1st in the following disposición.

BOLETIN OFICIAL REPUBLICA ARGENTINA - DIRECCIÓN NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES - Disposición 1732/2023

BOLETIN OFICIAL REPUBLICA ARGENTINA - DIRECCIÓN NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES - Disposición 1732/2023 - DI-2023-1732-APN-DNM#MI

www.boletinoficial.gob.ar

When you read the disposición, it is clear that Rentista temporary residents do have to bring the money into the country, as they always have. On close reading, it is not clear that the same requirement also applies to Pensionista temporary residents (who previously weren't required to demonstrate a minimum pension amount at all, let alone bring it in, and let alone pessify it at the official rate). Migraciones may be interpreting the disposición that way, of course. In that case, quite a harsh and questionable reading of their own regulation.

There is a lot of devil in the detail not specified in the disposición. How and when the amounts are calculated (given the volatility of both the exchange rate and the official minimum monthly salary) are, as mentioned in the first post, two of the unanswered questions. Another would be the question of pessification at the official rate. On the face of it, would someone, for example, collecting pesos from WU (presumably an "institución...financiera autorizada por el BANCO CENTRAL DE LA REPÚBLICA ARGENTINA") at the WU rate and then depositing them in a local bank account in an amount equal to the minimum monthly salary (for that month, at the exchange rate for that month) X 5 be compliant? If not, why not?

Nobody here has reported here in detail on specifically on how the new rules are supposed to work or are working in practice, and the expert lawyers who sometimes participate on the forum aren't saying.

You may be the test case, unless anyone who has been through the process since 1 June is willing to report here.





.

 

[Greg S]

Since you've engaged a lawyer on the matter, perhaps you can help the rest of us make sense of it. The rule is a new one, introduced on June 1st in the following disposición.

BOLETIN OFICIAL REPUBLICA ARGENTINA - DIRECCIÓN NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES - Disposición 1732/2023

BOLETIN OFICIAL REPUBLICA ARGENTINA - DIRECCIÓN NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES - Disposición 1732/2023 - DI-2023-1732-APN-DNM#MI

www.boletinoficial.gob.ar

When you read the disposición, it is clear that Rentista temporary residents do have to bring the money into the country, as they always have. On close reading, it is not clear that the same requirement also applies to Pensionista temporary residents (who previously weren't required to demonstrate a minimum pension amount at all, let alone bring it in, and let alone pessify it at the official rate). Migraciones may be interpreting the disposición that way, of course. In that case, quite a harsh and questionable reading of their own regulation.

There is a lot of devil in the detail not specified in the disposición. How and when the amounts are calculated (given the volatility of both the exchange rate and the official minimum monthly salary) are, as mentioned in the first post, two of the unanswered questions. Another would be the question of pessification at the official rate. On the face of it, would someone, for example, collecting pesos from WU (presumably an "institución...financiera autorizada por el BANCO CENTRAL DE LA REPÚBLICA ARGENTINA") at the WU rate and then depositing them in a local bank account in an amount equal to the minimum monthly salary (for that month, at the exchange rate for that month) X 5 be compliant? If not, why not?

Nobody here has reported here in detail on specifically on how the new rules are supposed to work or are working in practice, and the expert lawyers who sometimes participate on the forum aren't saying.

You may be the test case, unless anyone who has been through the process since 1 June is willing to report here.





.

I just received my pension precaria with my apostilled and translated SS income verification and FBI rap sheet. After filing the PDFs I received a migra appointment the next week. Done. Took my translator to migra.

 

[charlesfradley]

Since you've engaged a lawyer on the matter, perhaps you can help the rest of us make sense of it. The rule is a new one, introduced on June 1st in the following disposición.

BOLETIN OFICIAL REPUBLICA ARGENTINA - DIRECCIÓN NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES - Disposición 1732/2023

BOLETIN OFICIAL REPUBLICA ARGENTINA - DIRECCIÓN NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES - Disposición 1732/2023 - DI-2023-1732-APN-DNM#MI

www.boletinoficial.gob.ar

When you read the disposición, it is clear that Rentista temporary residents do have to bring the money into the country, as they always have. On close reading, it is not clear that the same requirement also applies to Pensionista temporary residents (who previously weren't required to demonstrate a minimum pension amount at all, let alone bring it in, and let alone pessify it at the official rate). Migraciones may be interpreting the disposición that way, of course. In that case, quite a harsh and questionable reading of their own regulation.

There is a lot of devil in the detail not specified in the disposición. How and when the amounts are calculated (given the volatility of both the exchange rate and the official minimum monthly salary) are, as mentioned in the first post, two of the unanswered questions. Another would be the question of pessification at the official rate. On the face of it, would someone, for example, collecting pesos from WU (presumably an "institución...financiera autorizada por el BANCO CENTRAL DE LA REPÚBLICA ARGENTINA") at the WU rate and then depositing them in a local bank account in an amount equal to the minimum monthly salary (for that month, at the exchange rate for that month) X 5 be compliant? If not, why not?

Nobody here has reported here in detail on specifically on how the new rules are supposed to work or are working in practice, and the expert lawyers who sometimes participate on the forum aren't saying.

You may be the test case, unless anyone who has been through the process since 1 June is willing to report here.





.

Yes these are important questions, can somebody please answer them?

 

[Alby]

I just received my pension precaria with my apostilled and translated SS income verification and FBI rap sheet. After filing the PDFs I received a migra appointment the next week. Done. Took my translator to migra.

Excellent. If you discover the answers to the questions raised in the above posts about the specific requirements Migraciones are making of new Pensionista residents to not only demonstrate pension income, but bring that income into the country in specific amounts, at certain points, and do so via means that force them to pessify the funds at the official exchange rate, it would be very helpful to post them here.

 

[Greg S]

Excellent. If you discover the answers to the questions raised in the above posts about the specific requirements Migraciones are making of new Pensionista residents to not only demonstrate pension income, but bring that income into the country in specific amounts, at certain points, and do so via means that force them to pessify the funds at the official exchange rate, it would be very helpful to post them here.

That was never raised by my attorney or migra. FBI, SS income verification that's it. The one question my migra interviewer asked was how I could be sure my SS income would continue. Lol. Fairly soon that could be a legitimate concern.

 

[Alby]

And if any existing Temporary Pensionista have been told by Migraciones since 1 June to start bringing in their pensions each month at 5X the minimum monthly salary or else they won't qualify to renew their temporary Pensionista residency or progress to Permanent residency, that too would be very helpful information.

 

[charlesfradley]

Also I heard it it possible to apply for Argentine citizenship immediately upon arrival, without getting a Pensionista visa, is that correct? That sounds like a cheaper option than being a Pensionista and changing dollars at the official rate for at least two years.

 

[Alby]

Also I heard it it possible to apply for Argentine citizenship immediately upon arrival, without getting a Pensionista visa, is that correct? That sounds like a cheaper option than being a Pensionista and changing dollars at the official rate for at least two years.

Let's not sidetrack this thread please. This option you discuss here is amply discussed in other threads on "Citizenship". It has received huge treatment, and you will find all answers about it by reading through them.

This thread on the Pensionista option is very important, and we need to keep it on track. The Pensionista visa is key for many current and future Expats, and the significant changes to it introduced in June have not been properly discussed until this thread began today. They need to be cleared up for all to see.