People Who Like B.a.

Rich One said:
For Spanish language students I suggest to avoid the vos conjugation since its only used in Porteño in Argentina. Have no indication if VOS was used, 500 years ago?, in the Porteño fashion of today? The Colonial texts may Read "Vos Majestad sois el que nos Gobierna..." ( sois no SOS?).
Mirá , saltá comé andá, salí , etc are locally modified versions of the Spanish Imperative tense ,accentuated in the last syllable? Never heard this mode of speech in LATAM countries other than Argentina
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Let me try again, Rich One.

As you say, you don’t know if vos was used 500 years: it was. It comes from Latin just as vous in French (and other similar pronouns in other Romance languages). Vos was used in Old Spanish but fell out of fashion in Spain, but only after some cities/towns we already founded in the Americas. Among regions that conserve vos from this time are Maracaibo in Venezuela, and Central American countries (where vos is sometimes considered “lowclass”, but this is only because when in it fell out of favor in Spain, people thought it was an incorrrect usage.) In some countries both tu and vos are still used.

If you go to these regions, you will here some of them do conjugate for vos just as in Argentina, in others the conjugations are slightly different, but all come from the old Spanish.
 
Vos is still used in Paraguay quite commonly, and seems to cohabitate fairly well with tu, as I hear both. Funny enough, seems I hear the "vos" forms more in el campo (where Guarani is spoken more than Spanish) and tu in Asuncion.

I learned Spanish originally some 30 years ago in high school, reinforced by working with Mexican labor crews on construction sites (as part of the labor crew, not a boss!). I will never pick up the Porteño accent - it would be like moving to Britain as an American and begin to speak with a British accent, to me - I learn a language one way and it pretty much sticks.

I do find myself, every once in awhile, using querés, tenés in place of quieres, tienes, though. I reckon using "lift" instead of "elevator" or "bonnet" instead of "hood", etc, in London as an American wouldn't be quite like trying to pronounce it as they do as well :)

Also, aside from the forms of "vos" and "tu" being a bit mixed in other countries and therefore understandable and appropriate, the Porteño accent in other countries could be a problem for foreigners speaking it (maybe even Porteños as well). I have some friends who learned Spanish here and they are fairly well understood here, but have told me when they go to Colombia, for example, people often look at them with a blank stare when they speak.
 
When I lived in Spain I was always getting it in the neck from my wife's Spanish teacher as I was always using the pretorite when he always insisted that the imperfect was the correct way in 'proper' Spanish.
I say this as I learned Spanish in BA as a teen, so I would say 'Fuiste al super?' or 'Che, tuviste mala suerte, no?'
So he would then say 'That's wrong, you should say:Has ido al supermercado? o 'Hombre, has tenido mala suerte, no?'
I'm open to corrections of course, but it did encourage me to wind him up a tad as he used to get almost apoplectic.
 
Gringoboy said:
When I lived in Spain I was always getting it in the neck from my wife's Spanish teacher as I was always using the pretorite when he always insisted that the imperfect was the correct way in 'proper' Spanish.
I say this as I learned Spanish in BA as a teen, so I would say 'Fuiste al super?' or 'Che, tuviste mala suerte, no?'
So he would then say 'That's wrong, you should say:Has ido al supermercado? o 'Hombre, has tenido mala suerte, no?'
I'm open to corrections of course, but it did encourage me to wind him up a tad as he used to get almost apoplectic.
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You may go back and tell your wife's Spanish teacher that from the point of view of modern-day linguistics, there is no such thing as proper. 95% of people have their vision clouded by the opinions they hear and read (from misinformed sources) about language.
 
This tangent on correct Spanish is hilarious...imagine logging into a UK expatssite and hearing foreigners opining correctly or incorrectly on our language..when half the UK population wouldn't know an English subjunctive if it came with a free beer in the local pub!
 
In fact we almost came to blows over this, particularly when he referred to me as a sudaca!
Laugh? I almost bought another round.
 
JoeBlow said:
Let me try again, Rich One.

As you say, you don’t know if vos was used 500 years: it was. It comes from Latin just as vous in French (and other similar pronouns in other Romance languages). Vos was used in Old Spanish but fell out of fashion in Spain, but only after some cities/towns we already founded in the Americas. Among regions that conserve vos from this time are Maracaibo in Venezuela, and Central American countries (where vos is sometimes considered “lowclass”, but this is only because when in it fell out of favor in Spain, people thought it was an incorrrect usage.) In some countries both tu and vos are still used.

If you go to these regions, you will here some of them do conjugate for vos just as in Argentina, in others the conjugations are slightly different, but all come from the old Spanish.
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good must check this , will travel to the interior of Venezuela to find out if they say: Vos Sos.... :D

Happy Holidays
 
BTW - Google translator (I know it sucks, but sometimes it helps find a word you need!) doesn't recognize "vos" and "sos".

I remember that because when I first came here someone sent me a text using those forms and I was completely lost. Went to Google to translate it and it didn't have the faintest idea. We only covered vosotros forms, in Spanish I more than 30 years ago, for about two days and our professor (Senorita Glidden - she was HOT! :) funny the things that stay with us all these years...) told us the forms were rarely used any more. Of course, we were studying Mexican "castellano".
 
Vos is probably the equivalent of thou in english, it was used in the times of the Virreynato, I ve read letters of San Martin using vos (short form of vosotros) which is singular* and formal, the same as the french vous.

*About the singular, yes is weird, but singular and plural in formal used to be practically the same thing. "Vuestra alteza" = Your Highness. Or, better, plural used to be singular formal.
 
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