darmanad said:
Gee, your use of the word "Zionist" seems to equate it with something menacing. If a Zionist is one who supports the right of the state of Israel to exist as a national homeland for Jews, I plead guilty. But wasn't the creation of Israel sanctioned by the UN? I mean, it is a legal state, isn't it? So why would somone who supports its continued existence be menacing?
I called you a Zionist because you are completely incapable to criticize Israel. You can support the right for Israel to exist, but you shouldn't support their war crimes, which you are.
darmanad said:
With respect to your argument that the attack on the Marmara was illegal, do you contend that Israel did not have a right to inspect the cargo to confirm it was not prohibited war materiel? Do you contend that if it does have a right to do so and the ship refuses it can not be inspected by force? Nothing you write defines Israel's rights when the ship refuses to be inspected.
They do have the right to inspect the ship yes. But that is not what they did. They attacked it, murdered people on board and then kidnapped them. Even those on board who were not resisting their illegal attack.
darmanad said:
With respect to Mr Murray statements, I am confess I am confused. As to his first point, even if Israel and Gaza are at war (I agree they are) it is not okay for Hamas or other Gazans to randomly fire missles into civilian populations. That is a violation of the rules of war. Israel's complaints are well founded since no one denies those are the facts. It would be doubly evil if such violations occured during a peace truce. In any case, it is absurd to argue that one should not condemn random shelling of purely civilian populations.
Israel violates the same rule of war all the time. They bomb schools and hospitals in Gaza. They even hit UN installations. Both sides are guilty of war crimes. Both sides use terrorist tactics.
darmanad said:
As I understand the Geneva Conventions, not all enemy combatants are entitled to the prisoner of war protections established by the Geneva Accords. There are unlawful enemy combatants e.g. those who disguise themselves as civilians. I do not believe unlawful enemy combatants aka terrorists are entitled to be treated as prisoners of war under the Geneva Accords. Mr Murray seems to disregard this distinction between lawful enemy combatants and unlawful enemy combatants. His arguments are utterly unconvincing.
You understand it wrong. "Unlawful enemy combatant" is an American term and is nowhere to be found in the Geneva Convention. And according to the Geneva Convention a civilian population do have the right to fight an occupation. Like the French Resistance did during WWII. But of course they were heroes and Palestinians are terrorists in your opinion right?
darmanad said:
Regarding
naval blockades per se, the applicable law is codified in the San Remo Armed Conflicts at Sea manual;
http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/FULL/560?OpenDocument.
102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a)
it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:
(a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and
(b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.
So now can we all agree what Israel did was a violation of international law?
darmanad said:
That being the case it seems to me that those who hysterically shout that Israel has committed piracy, that the IDF actions on the Marmara were criminal, that the blockade is a war crime need to tone down their rhetoric. As I mentioned above the supporters of the Palestinians lose credibility when they accuse Israel of war crimes and genocide. People of good faith can argue the proportionailty case, but at least all should acknowledge that it is not a simple black and white issue.
Of course it's not a black and white issue. But who is occupying another country's land? What country continuously violates UN resolutions? Why should these issues be toned down? If they continue their illegal blockade and continue to violate the UN resolutions, how do you think there is ever going to be peace?
darmanad said:
Maybe then Israel will be able to negotiate realistically with Hamas.
The PLO government does recognize Israel's right to exist. And Israel wasn't trying to negotiate any peace with them either. The Israeli government doesn't want peace. What they offer is ethnic cleansing and genocide. That fact I think is becoming pretty obvious to the international community.
darmanad said:
Duh? How can you possibly say that the IDF was not provoked? The Marmara was attempting to violate a legal blockade. The IDF warned it and then boarded pursuant to international law. When the IDF soldiers boarded the Marmara they were immediately attacked with bats, sticks, knives. One or two were thrown to a lower deck. There is video evidencing this conduct. One or two soldiers had their firearms taken. The resistors didn't just provoke the IDF, they attacked them. Get your facts straight.
Moreover, why do you contend that acts you concede are legal are immoral? On what basis do you contentd the IDF act immorally?
IDF attacked civilian ships on international waters. This is illegal and the civilian boat crew has a right to defend themselves. Those are the facts. We have already demonstrated that Israel had no legal right to attack those boats. And if you disagree, why don't you show us the evidence for it?
And the video we have seen is from confiscated journalistic material, another Israeli crime, edited out for us to see what they want us to see. The activists say the Israelis fired on them before boarding. Only an independent investigation can tell us who is lying. And that is if Israel doesn't destroy the evidence like they usually do.
darmanad said:
For those who wan to learn more about the blockade you can just google "gaza blockade effects" to get a wealth of info.
The blockade is like UN says; ineffective. They smuggle most of the food and supplies through underground tunnels. It does have the effect that prices are a lot higher. Especially for things like building materials which is needed to rebuild the civilian houses, schools, hospitals and roads that the Israelis have bombed or bulldozed.
And if they can smuggle that much food in. Imagine how easy it is to smuggle rockets.