Pirate state of Israel

Choripán said:
So I guess the concept of a proportionate response holds no meaning for you, which probably explains your zealotry.
Am I really the one that has come across as a zealot? That characterization is not supported by my postings on this thread ( see one labeled "2 sides to every story"), but it does seem to be applicable to you and Orwel who shout emotionally charged angry rhetoric that fails to examine, let alone consider, basic factual or legal issues.You are firing blanks. Lots of heat. No light.

The Marmara did not provoke a violent response of this magnitude (10 deaths), especially with the ridiculous threat of sticks and stones. I know it's hard for you to see this, but the reason that the rest of the world is pissed off is precisely because the response was disproportionate. Here is a tape of how the "peaceniks" acted the moment the IDF soldiers arrived. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI&feature=channel
This is consistent with the planned violence. More video from the ship showing preparaton for violent confrontation. http://blog.camera.org/archives/2010/06/nonviolence_training_from_the.htmlnt
p.s. I understand Turkey has since raided the offices of the IHH, the leaders of the ship's contingent, and found materials linking them to activities of Hamas and al Qaida.

No doubt the protesters intended a widely publicized POLITICAL response - arrest,, deportation, the standard media spectacle stuff that in reality is quite ineffective these days. Even so, the analogies here are tragedies like Kent state and Tienanmen Square. Citizens looking to raise awareness through protest end up dead because of a vengeful and reactive state. Lot's of legalistic post-hoc justifications after those events as well. They screamed bad words at us! They made menacing faces! So we killed them all!
Your factual assumptions about the conduct of the ship's occupants do not square with the physical evidence. Your analogies of Kent State and Tienanmen Sq are inaccurate because in neither of those incidents were the protestors physically attacking the government forces. This kind of demagoguic hyperbole is now rampant. Truth is the first casualty of war.

Never conceded anything of the kind [legal acts are immoral]. My point was that jokers like you will invent all sorts of ridiculous "legal" arguments to avoid dealing with the one thing you know to be true: the guys playing for your team over-reacted and killed a bunch of people who did not deserve to die.
If you go back and read your prior comment you will see that in reference to the incident you wrote "there can be no dispute: legal or not, it was 100% immoral and unjustifiable ". Gee, that appears to be saying that it is irrelevant whether or not the IDF acted legally.
Sorry to have to disclaim credit, but joker that I am, I didn't "invent" the San Remo Manual. It is a codification of existing law prepared during the period 1988-1994 by a group of legal and naval experts participating in their personal capacity in a series of Round Tables convened by the International Institute of Humanitarian Law. The purpose of the Manual is to provide a contemporary restatement of international law applicable to armed conflicts at sea. Notwithstanding Orwel's tortured attempts to make an end run around the law and your pooh poohing of it, , it indisputably provides that a foreign flagged ship may be boarded in international waters if it reasonable to conclude it is intending to violate a legal blockade.
How the IDF acted on board, i.e. whether it used excessive force is
a valid question, but not all of the facts have been disclosed. What is certain, for those with an attention span within the bell curve, is that the evidence clearly demonstrates that the IDF soldiers were attacked as soon as they boarded the Marmara, that the attack on them was premeditated, and that they were within their rights to use force to take control of the ship, none of which seems to matter to those who are blinded by the tragic deaths that befell the ship's occupants.

You are merely using the language of legality to mask the underlying immorality of the behavior.
My god, man, are you reduced to this kind of argument? That the law has no relevance to moral conduct?
Again, legality does not matter here.
You are! Fantastic. That is about as idiotic as BBwolf's exhortation that we should not even be having this discussion (see above). By the way, if the law doesn't matter, do the facts also not matter? Another case of "my mind is made up - don't confuse me with the facts", eh?

But since we are on the topic of legality... All the so-called international "laws" that apply here were atgreed to among nation states. The Palestinians do not have a nation state, and thus are not party to these agreements. International law binds states and until the Palestinians have one, who knows what counts as legal and illegal.
Did you give any time to the opiniojuris link I cited above? ( http://opiniojuris.org/2010/06/02/why-is-israels-blockade-of-gaza-legal/ ). If not, I suggest you go back and take a look. The overwhelming evidence and logic dicate that the rules of war apply to non-states, NAICs. Would you give terrorists, insurgents, more rights than a recognized state?. Here is an apt comment on the San Remo Manual from the comments/notes of the above cited link:
The author appears to be claiming that this means only “beligerent States” may be blockaded. Yet there is nothing to support that contention. Indeed, the exact opposite appears to be true. In the relevant article concerning “blockade”, the authors of the Manual are careful not to use the term “belligerent States“:
Quote:
Blockade
93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.
[Emphasis added]
Please note the lack of qualifier “States” after the term ‘belligerent”
The natural reading of this is that there can exist “belligerents” who are not “belligerent States“, and who may be notified (and thus subject) to blockade. That exactly fits Gaza.

Here is another comment:
OK, if Gaza is not a state and the conflict with Israel is not an IAC, then the controlling legal documents are the agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, specifically the Gaza-Jericho Agreement. See in particular Article XI of Annex 1, Security Along the Coastline and in the Sea of Gaza, which defines certain “Maritime Activity Zones” and makes clear that Foreign vessels entering Zone L will not approach closer than 12 nautical miles from the coast except as regards activities covered in paragraph 4 below.
Paragraph 4 then reads:
As part of Israel’s responsibilities for safety and security within the three Maritime Activity Zones, Israel Navy vessels may sail throughout these zones, as necessary and without limitations, and may take any measures necessary against vessels suspected of being used for terrorist activities or for smuggling arms, ammunition, drugs, goods, or for any other illegal activity. The Palestinian Police will be notified of such actions, and the ensuing procedures will be coordinated through the Maritime Coordination and Cooperation Center.
So the PA agreed that Israel has the right to control the coast of Gaza and that there is therefore no right of neutral ship or any other ships to enter into these waters without the express permission of Israel.
Clearly, then, the Gaza Flotilla had no right to enter the waters off of Gaza or to dock in Gaza. That Israel stopped them before they got within 20 nautical miles was a perfectly legal act of preemption, since the ship captains made quite clear in communications with the Israeli Navy that their destination was Gaza, despite being warned that they would not be allowed to proceed.


This in fact is one of the better arguments for giving them their own state - so that they can be held accountable in a way that merely occupied and oppressed populations cannot.
Nonsense. Obviating argument over the applicability of the rules of war to Gaza/Hamas/PA is a non-factor in giving Palestinians their own state. The Palestinians should have their own state because it is just, because they deserve it, because it would improve the quality of their lives, and the quality of life for their neighbors in the mideast by improving the chance for an enduring peace.

[In response to why do you contend the IDF acted immorally?] Pretty much the same basis as everyone else: 1) the blockade is unjustifiably repressive and reeks of punishment rather than prevention and 2) killing ten people who were clearly trying to make a political statement rather than commit an act of terrorism offends common sense moral intuitions. I realize that YOU can't see Israel's behavior in this case as immoral. But that failure merely reveals your strong relationship to Israel and your weak relationship to otherwise ordinary moral institutions. You remind me of that old joke, "love my mother, drunk or sober!" Sure, but let's face it: the woman should sober up! In other words, you, like many maniacal pro-Israel zealots around the world, have already given up common sense morality in the name of partisan gains. You want your team to win so badly you won't acknowledge when they have committed a foul while trying to score a point. Yes, I know there are lots of other people in our ugly world who do the same: no one person or group holds a monopoly on immorality. Likewise, no one holds a monopoly on virtue and justice. And it's precisely the failure to recognize this very important nugget of wisdom that gets Israel into so much trouble these days.
How ironic that you accuse me of being a zealot - a fanatic - when I have approached this subject reasonably, to wit, allowing for criticism of Israel not only for its truculence on the settlements issue, but for the manner in which it jeopardizes the legality of its blockade by too severely restricting goods into Gaza. I have not ruled out that the IDF may have overreacted. If I am a zealot , what would you call those who refuse to concede the right of Israel to exist ? What about the fellows that fly planes into buildings in NY, bomb subways during rush hour in London, bomb passenger commuter trains in Madrid, nightclubs in Bali, shoot up hotels in Mumbai, all the while screaming "allah akbar" as well as the rest of their coreligionists who believe they will rewarded in paradise with 72 virgins if they die making jihad for their religion.
You have failed to consider the evidence and law that the ship blockade was legal. You have to failed consider that the IDF soldiers may have acted in self defense ( which is not to say the didn't overreact). You presume to preach about morality, but assert that compliance with the law is irrelevant in assessing the morailty of actions. You make absurd accusations without backing them up with facts and reasoning.You appear to think you make an eloquent case for your position when in truth all you do is rant.
If you want to discuss the issues sensibly and rationally, the starting point might be to learn the facts. Have you viewed the above videos? Have you read any news reports issues by the Israeli side? What can you say about the legality of the blockade ? Do you know how much the current restrictions on the entry of goods is truly affecting the existence of the Gazans? If starvation is threantend , how is it that Gazans rank so extrordinarily high in national obesity?
As to the legal issues, can you articulate the standard by which one should judge the legality of the blockade? The San Remo Manual also contains rules governing the lawfulness of the blockade itself, and one could argue there can be no authority under international law to enforce a blockade which is unlawful. Paragraph 102 of the Manual prohibits a blockade if “the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade”. The background to that ‘proportionality’ rule is the experience of past world wars where naval blockades had devastating effects on civilian populations.There is genuine debate whether Israel’s blockade of Gaza is disproportionate in legal terms. The proportionality rule requires an assessment of the military advantage against the harmful effects on civilians. Israel claims that the blockade is necessary to prevent Hamas from mounting indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israeli civilians. I attached some links to one of my above posts above that expressed both sides of this debate. I wonder how much time you gave yourself to read up on the subject. People of good fatih can disagree, but I believe that under the totality of the circumstances the blockade is not illegal. It follws that the IDF's actions vis a vis the Marmara were legal.
I reached my position after examining the aplicable law and applying it to the facts that I have digested. I have asked BBwolf to provide more facts in this regard. I remain open to reconsider my conclusion. One thing is for sure. I am not a zealot and for you to call me one for articulating my position undermines your credibility.

Your disturbing comment about Dan Pearl's death drives the point home: in your mind you see the persons who murdered him as the same as the people on the boat.
More nonsense. On what basis do you make this statement?
That failure of distinction, the failure to recognize the the distinctness of individuals rather than the ethnicity or religion or class that they belong to, is perhaps the best indication that someone has lost his moral bearing. What's especially shocking is that Israelis themselves have been and continue to be victims of exactly this kind of immorality. And yet instead of trying to end it they dive into the muck with all the other bad human beings while blah blah blahing away about how this or that "higher" principle justifies what is to anyone else prima facie unjust. Do you not realize that every act of political butchery is accompanied by a legalistic explanation of why it was the right thing to do?
Wrong. It is often accompanied by a religious reason why it is right as in the case of sharia law.
"They deserved it" justifications are a dime a dozen - the inquisition, colonialism, terrorism, crusades and, yes, even when the sons of Israel invaded Palestine in the first place to exterminate all the non-believers who lived there at the time. And supposedly they all deserved it. Ironically, this despicable attitude is the main thing Jews and Muslims have in common these days (not withstanding the whole Abrahamic tradition).

That is exactly what I mean. The existence of Israel depends on the support and good faith of people like me - people who believe that Israel has a right to co-exist and thus merits our help. Which means that if you want us to keep helping Israel, something we have done for more than 60 years now, you should probably listen to us when we say Israel's current behavior offends common sense morality. Because at the end of the day Israel's ridiculous legal justifications won't matter. No one gives a shit. The only thing that matters are the moral intuitions of the average American paying for Israel's safety and security. And when we start to believe that you no longer share our values the world of Israel will get very ugly indeed. So do yourself a favor: call a spade a spade. When Israel fucks up, as it undoubtedly did in this case, admit it and look for solutions that will serve to resolve the larger and more complicated issues fueling all of the bullshit. You think you're winning with the partisan nonsense, but in reality you are losing more by the day.



My god this is as offensive as it is pathetic. As if the fact that there are evil Muslims doing bad things means that there can be nothing but angelic Israelis doing good things. Just to be clear: butchery is murdering ten individuals looking to make a political statement. Butchery is also what happened to Danny Pearl. The world, sadly, is full of butchery these days. Some of it is on the part of radical groups, some of it is state sponsored. What the Israeli defense forces did on that boat was butchery and nothing less. As for the example of Pearl, I would suggest that next time you want to exploit a dead man who did not share your worldview for political gain, check with his living wife first. She will tell you and your zealous politics to go fuck yourselves.
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Until you have demonstrated a good grasp of the facts and law, your feelings about right and wrong, to wit, your conclusions how the IDF and Israels have acted so immoraly are not convincing to me. I do agree that most people will not bother to learn the true facts before reaching a conclusion. You are a shining example of just that.
 
For Orwel in regard to his contention that Hamas fighters are entitled to POW status. In general see the discussion of the Geneva Conventions at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant
The Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, 12 August 1949 (GCIII) of 1949 defines the requirements for a captive to be eligible for treatment as a POW. A lawful combatant is a person who commits belligerent acts, and, when captured, is treated as a POW. An unlawful combatant is someone who commits belligerent acts but does not qualify for POW status under GCIII Articles 4 and 5.

GCIII Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:(
a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.
5. Members of crews [of civil ships and aircraft], who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:
1. Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country.

Now I understand that many Muslims and even some dhimmis may regard Hamas mujahdeen as freedom fighters, and freedom fighters may have to fight dirty because of their military disadvantage, but in light of the above definitions, especially 2 (b) (c) and (d) they clearly do not qualify as POWs Has any argument to the contrary ever been accepted by anyone?
​
 
Israel relaxes Gaza Blockade and lets 5 percent more goods in as if this is going to change the fact that they live in a Prison and cannot leave nor work nor live.

The sickness of individuals like Darmanad shows the cruelty of Israel and its supporters. Their blind arrogance and their cruelty to a people has no parrallel in the modern world .

We are supposed to clap and cheer when the Brutal master throws a few crumbs to his captives.
 
cabrera said:
Israel relaxes Gaza Blockade and lets 5 percent more goods in as if this is going to change the fact that they live in a Prison and cannot leave nor work nor live.

The sickness of individuals like Darmanad shows the cruelty of Israel and its supporters. Their blind arrogance and their cruelty to a people has no parrallel in the modern world .

We are supposed to clap and cheer when the Brutal master throws a few crumbs to his captives.
Click to expand...

Name calling is not going to raise anyone's consciousness about the Israeli- Palestinian/Gazan conflict. Help me understand your position by explaining the reasons for your anger. Do you deny that the Palestinians in Gaza and the Israelis are at war?

1. Where do you get the 5% figure?
2. On what basis do you assert that Gazans cannot leave, work or live?
3. In what way am I sick? How does that show the cruelty of Israel and its supporters?
4. How does the incomparable Israeli treatment of Gazans compare to :
a) Turkish treatment of Armenians early in the 20th century
b) German treatment of Jews, Gypsies, handicapped in the 30s and 40s as well as German treatment of the French population and the citizens of other nations it conquered
c) Serbian atrocities against Croats and Bosnians in the Balkans
d) Japanese to the Chinese in WWII
e) Soviet aggression against Hungarians and Czechs in the 50s
f) US bombardment of Vietnam
g) US occupation of Iraq
f) Iraq gas bombing of the Kurds in the 1990s
 
Palestine: The Muslim and Christian community of Palestine has been struggling for their survival and freedom for almost a century. The Palestinian community was struggling for their homeland long before the creation of Israel. They were expecting to have their homeland when the British leave the area but when British left the area they created Israel not Palestine. After the creation of Israel, the Jewish people of Israel not only captured the homes and lands of poor Palestinians but they also denied them the right of existence in their own homeland. Since 1948 the calamities for the Palestinian people have increased instead of decreasing. Presently, what Israeli forces are doing to Palestinians is worse than the Holocaust of the World War II. There is no doubt in my mind that the Jewish community suffered a lot during world war II from the hands of Nazis and almost six million Jews were killed in that Holocaust. However, all these calamities ended on the Jewish people when the allied forces got victory. The Jewish community was liberated with the help from USA and allied forces. On the other side, the Palestinians have been struggling on their own against a power (Israel + USA + worldwide Jewish and allied communities) which is 100 times more resourceful than the Palestinians. Palestinians have no support from their own Arab brothers. Palestinians have no support from the Muslims of the world. Whatever Palestinians get from the Arab and Muslim world is no more than a lip service. Apparently, we do not see any end to these calamities on the Palestinians in the near future. So far, more than over a million Palestinians have been killed, millions of them have made refugees, and millions of them are in the concentration camps. The Israeli forces have converted Palestinian homes and areas into concentration camps and have made most palestinians lives hell that have no equal in human history . The examples that Darmanad has shown is an indicator once again of the cruelty of the Israel Government and its supporters who are trying to justify with propàganda the belief that palestinians suffering is less than others.

Most european and reasonably educated people can see the propaganda and misinformation clearly that Israel spouts though its thousands of cyber friends who spread propaganda through the internet to support their genocide of the Palestinian pèople
 
cabrera said:
Palestine: The Muslim and Christian community of Palestine has been struggling for their survival and freedom for almost a century. The Palestinian community was struggling for their homeland long before the creation of Israel. They were expecting to have their homeland when the British leave the area but when British left the area they created Israel not Palestine. After the creation of Israel, the Jewish people of Israel not only captured the homes and lands of poor Palestinians but they also denied them the right of existence in their own homeland. Since 1948 the calamities for the Palestinian people have increased instead of decreasing. Presently, what Israeli forces are doing to Palestinians is worse than the Holocaust of the World War II. There is no doubt in my mind that the Jewish community suffered a lot during world war II from the hands of Nazis and almost six million Jews were killed in that Holocaust. However, all these calamities ended on the Jewish people when the allied forces got victory. The Jewish community was liberated with the help from USA and allied forces. On the other side, the Palestinians have been struggling on their own against a power (Israel + USA + worldwide Jewish and allied communities) which is 100 times more resourceful than the Palestinians. Palestinians have no support from their own Arab brothers. Palestinians have no support from the Muslims of the world. Whatever Palestinians get from the Arab and Muslim world is no more than a lip service. Apparently, we do not see any end to these calamities on the Palestinians in the near future. So far, more than over a million Palestinians have been killed, millions of them have made refugees, and millions of them are in the concentration camps. The Israeli forces have converted Palestinian homes and areas into concentration camps and have made most palestinians lives hell that have no equal in human history . The examples that Darmanad has shown is an indicator once again of the cruelty of the Israel Government and its supporters who are trying to justify with propàganda the belief that palestinians suffering is less than others.

Most european and reasonably educated people can see the propaganda and misinformation clearly that Israel spouts though its thousands of cyber friends who spread propaganda through the internet to support their genocide of the Palestinian pèople
Click to expand...

Your facts, sparse as they are, are largely inaccurate. Accurate factual reasons to support your emotional outpouring are totally absent. Consequently, your diatribe is nothing more than a mindless, demagoguic rant devoid of reason, unconvincing to any rational person interested in learning about the real situation. Let's examine what you write.

Your rant is in response to my request for you to explain your previous post which belittled my citation of a report from The Economist on the Israeli relaxation of the Gaza blockade. I asked you to give the source of the 5% figure you cited. You ignored this request.

I also asked you to explain your assertion that the Gazans can neither
"leave nor work nor live." You ignored this request.

I asked you to concede that the Hamas-led Gazans and Israel are at war. You ignored this question.

I asked you to explain your claim that "The sickness of individuals like Darmanad shows the cruelty of Israel and its supporters. Their blind arrogance and their cruelty to a people has no parrallel in the modern world." You ignored this question.

In response to your assertion that Israel's treatment of Palestinians has no parallel, I listed a bunch of examples of inhumane government conduct, some of which are patently more cruel than the Israeli treatment of Palestinians or Gazans (to any rational person). You responded with the following:
The examples that Darmanad has shown is an indicator once again of the cruelty of the Israel Government and its supporters who are trying to justify with propàganda the belief that palestinians suffering is less than others.
How does providing examples that might compare or exceed Israeli cruelty "once again show the cruelty of the Israeli government and its supporters?" I don't comprehend your meaning. How does offering comparisons in reply to what you claim is an unparalleled conduct constitute propaganda that palestinians (sic) suffering is less than others? You make no sense. I never maintained that the Gazans aren't suffering, but lets not blow things totally out of proportion. And, after all, there is a war going on.

In order to learn about the history of the region and the struggle of both the Palestinians and Jews for a mideast homeland I suggest reading http://mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm. Getting through all the info will take a couple of hours, but this site and its links provide a detailed balanced resume of mideast history as good as any I have been able to find. I welcome alternatives.

Cabrera, you lose credibility and show enormous ignorance and prejudice when, as you do above, you make the statement:
"Presently, what Israeli forces are doing to Palestinians is worse than the Holocaust of the World War II."
That is insulting to all Jews. I defy anyone in their right mind to argue the truth of what you assert. The allegations of genocide by Israel comparable to the Nazi final solution are absurd hyperbole.

You make some other odd statements, e.g,:
Palestinians have no support from their own Arab brothers. Palestinians have no support from the Muslims of the world.
It seems to me odd if the Palestinian cause was so compelling as you say, none of the other 22 Arab nation states in the mideast would provide support. The fact is that Iran and Syria are providing arms to Hamas and Saudi Arabia and probably many others are providing financial support. The diplomatic quartet on the mideast consisting of the EU, UN, US and Russia may not be providing much support to the Gazans because they all regard Hamas as a terrorist organization.

You also say:
So far, more than over a million Palestinians have been killed, millions of them have made refugees, and millions of them are in the concentration camps.
These figures seem exaggerated. Where do you get these figures?

No one denies the Gazans are living in difficult conditions especially since 2007 when Hamas usurped all power from Fatah via armed force. Hamas has rejected the prior Palestinian (PLO) acceptance of the Oslo peace accords signed by Arafat recognizing the right of the state of Israel to exist. The Palestinians in the West Bank are suffering because of the Hamas control of much of the Palestinian population.
This is not to say Israel has always been reasonable. They haven't been, although if one reads about the rejection by the PLO of the terms of the proposed Palestinian-Israel agreement brokered by Clinton in the later part of his administration, one can argue that the Palestinians themselves, quite apart from Hamas, have been more unreasonable. Dennis Ross, the chief US negotiator for those settlement talks in December, 2000, wrote in his 2004 memoirs that Clinton's final settlement package offered a great deal to the PLO including the return of 97% of West Bank land and parts of Jerusalem. The Israeli cabinet approved this compromise with reservations within its parameters. It was rejected by the PLO. At the time that the settlement offer was pending, the Saudi ambassador, Prince Bandar Ibn Sultan said, "If Arafat does not accept what is available now, it won't be a tragedy, it will be a crime." (Ross, The Missing Peace, 2004, p.748).

The situation in the mideast is complicated by an intolerant, supremacist Islamic belief system. Over time, especially since the end of WWII, as the respective Arab governments ( Egypt, Jordan, Syria) failed to resolve the Zionist dilemma, fanatic pan-Islamism has taken stronger hold. One should learn somehting about the true nature of Islam in order to get further insight into the problems. See www.jihadwatch.org . One may come to empathize more with the Israeli position once one learns about the basic philosophical tenets of Hizbollah, Hamas, Al Qaida and the various Taliban, all of which call for the elimination of Israel and all of which seek to impose sharia law in a world wide caliphate.
 
The situation in the mideast is complicated by an intolerant, supremacist Islamic belief system. Over time, especially since the end of WWII, as the respective Arab governments ( Egypt, Jordan, Syria) failed to resolve the Zionist dilemma, fanatic pan-Islamism has taken stronger hold. One should learn somehting about the true nature of Islam in order to get further insight into the problems. See www.jihadwatch.org . One may come to empathize more with the Israeli position once one learns about the basic philosophical tenets of Hizbollah, Hamas, Al Qaida and the various Taliban, all of which call for the elimination of Israel and all of which seek to impose sharia law in a world wide caliphate.

Replace the word islam with Israel and this paragraph aboves best explains the Israel government and its very extreme rulers who are hell bent in controlling the Middle East and all critisicm of its policies. They seek to impose propaganda and false claims of anti semitism at any minor critisicm of their brutal policies . Israel today is the worlds most anti democratic state.
 
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