Prefectura Protests

[cuore]

They basically work the same as Gendarmerie and the Coast Guard, but they have other laws and rules as they are armed forces. Cristina didn't create a decree for them, this only applies to the armed services (i'm not sure of the translation, it is fuerzas de seguridad, security forces).

This is not correct. The decree for the armed forces is #1305/12

 

[toongeorges]

The government was crazy if they thought they could cut people's wages without generating protests. They should have known this was going to happen.

Maybe they are reasoning among the lines of the more poor people there are, the more votes can be bought. (Sarcasm)

 

[Inferno.]

This is not correct. The decree for the armed forces is #1305/12

Nice info, I didn't know that she did that too. I'm reading about this and it doesn't look good.

 

[el_expatriado]

I am actually scared over this situation, I have a really really bad feeling about how this is going to go down.......I HOPE I am wrong.......

Seriously? Do you people actually think the coast guard is going to sail down the Rio de la Plata in PT boats and take over the Casa Rosada?

The government is trying convince everyone this is some kind of conspiracy to hide their own ineptitude (which is what caused the protest in the first place). In Argentina you can't just cut someone's salary by 50% and expect them to do nothing.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

"The situation in both armed forces has been normalized." Security Minister Nilda Garré.

This says all you need to know about the political mentality here.

 

[BienTeVeo]

"The situation in both armed forces has been normalized." Security Minister Nilda Garré.

This says all you need to know about the political mentality here.

Reminds me of an old joke. Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev are all travelling together in a train. Suddenly the train stops. Stalin puts his head out of the window and shouts, "If the train doesn't start moving soon, the conductor will be shot!" Still, the train goes nowhere. Khrushchev then shouts, "Let's take the rails behind the train and use them to lay the tracks in the front". But it still doesn't move. Brezhnev then gets up and draws all the curtains. Sitting back down with the others he says "Comrades, the train is moving."

 

[cuore]

Nice info, I didn't know that she did that too. I'm reading about this and it doesn't look good.

Ok then, so let me do some further explanation to clear some things up. This could be pretty complicated to explain so excuse my English in advance

Due to the economic situation in the 90's, for more than 20 years the federal government has paid the members (both military and civilian) of the armed forces or security forces in a very peculiar way. I believe that other government employees suffered this as well but their unions were able to put this in order.

So, prior to the decree, a pay check had on the credit side a sueldo basico and many many many unfathomable items called suplementos. Some of them were identifiable such as Family Allowance, seniority, not using military housing, etc. but the rest were the product of some 60's, 70's and 80's decrees no one really knew about. So did the debit.

This suplementos served as wage increases to fight inflation but since they weren't part of the pension payments they said there were mostly paid "en negro". The complicated part of this was that these suplementos were about 65-70% of the pay-check which meant that a retired military (or civilian personnel) only got a small fraction of what he/she earned while in active duty. Some people say this served as a form of punishment for the retired military that took part of the crimes on the 70's but since this affected people who had nothing to do with it I believe this was more a money issue than a political one.

So about a decade ago, they started to take legal actions against the federal government in order to have all that money "blanqueada".

What happened is that a large part of Gendarmeria and Prefectura had the judges' ruling quite fast. The armed forces members' took a lot more time but some lucky ones where able to have them.

This created a huge gap between those who had the ruling and those who did not. Even worse, they had a problem on the chain of command since they had, lets say a Sgt. Mj. who earned more than his/her Commanding officer. In an organization that's meant to be vertical it's quite complicated if a Col. with ruling makes 25k and general with no ruling makes 16k.

This started a huge wave of legal actions that for what I've heard reached about 200,000 men. Some of them even had the ruling but the government refuse to obey it and continue to pay as before.

Last year, the supreme court (Fallo Zanotti) urged the Secretary of defense to correct the situation and regularize (aka, blanquear) the entire military.

So the government designed a decree initially intended for the armed forces (1305) that was later applied for the security forces (1307) as well. The decree redistributed and redesigned the basic wages according to each rank with fewer suplementos: "responsabilidad jerárquica" and "administración de material" for the armed forces and "responsabilidad por cargo", "por función intermedia", "por cumplimiento de tareas específicas de seguridad" and "por mayor exigencia del servicio" for Gendarmería and Prefectura.

However, the decree said that only 80% of the forces could have them and each person could only have one. The rest would have nothing. Hence, the gov. created a transitory fixed sum to compensate those who would end up earning less money.

So what happened differs from force to force
1. the armed forces
a. those who had no ruling were paid mostly the same as before, except those with no suplementos, which even with that sum I mention were paid less
b. those with ruling were paid a a lot, a lot a lot less.

2. the security forces
since a large majority had the ruling, almost everyone got paid a lot less.
And those who had no ruling received a lot less too because of the reorganization of wages.

So now, on top of the wages they are claiming for a life insurance, freedom to choose the healthcare system that they want and some other things you can watch on tv.


behold the problem... Im tired of writing

 

[nicoenarg]

Ok then, so let me do some further explanation to clear some things up. This could be pretty complicated to explain so excuse my English in advance

Due to the economic situation in the 90's, for more than 20 years the federal government has paid the members (both military and civilian) of the armed forces or security forces in a very peculiar way. I believe that other government employees suffered this as well but their unions were able to put this in order.

So, prior to the decree, a pay check had on the credit side a sueldo basico and many many many unfathomable items called suplementos. Some of them were identifiable such as Family Allowance, seniority, not using military housing, etc. but the rest were the product of some 60's, 70's and 80's decrees no one really knew about. So did the debit.

This suplementos served as wage increases to fight inflation but since they weren't part of the pension payments they said there were mostly paid "en negro". The complicated part of this was that these suplementos were about 65-70% of the pay-check which meant that a retired military (or civilian personnel) only got a small fraction of what he/she earned while in active duty. Some people say this served as a form of punishment for the retired military that took part of the crimes on the 70's but since this affected people who had nothing to do with it I believe this was more a money issue than a political one.

So about a decade ago, they started to take legal actions against the federal government in order to have all that money "blanqueada".

What happened is that a large part of Gendarmeria and Prefectura had the judges' ruling quite fast. The armed forces members' took a lot more time but some lucky ones where able to have them.

This created a huge gap between those who had the ruling and those who did not. Even worse, they had a problem on the chain of command since they had, lets say a Sgt. Mj. who earned more than his/her Commanding officer. In an organization that's meant to be vertical it's quite complicated if a Col. with ruling makes 25k and general with no ruling makes 16k.

This started a huge wave of legal actions that for what I've heard reached about 200,000 men. Some of them even had the ruling but the government refuse to obey it and continue to pay as before.

Last year, the supreme court (Fallo Zanotti) urged the Secretary of defense to correct the situation and regularize (aka, blanquear) the entire military.

So the government designed a decree initially intended for the armed forces (1305) that was later applied for the security forces (1307) as well. The decree redistributed and redesigned the basic wages according to each rank with fewer suplementos: "responsabilidad jerárquica" and "administración de material" for the armed forces and "responsabilidad por cargo", "por función intermedia", "por cumplimiento de tareas específicas de seguridad" and "por mayor exigencia del servicio" for Gendarmería and Prefectura.

However, the decree said that only 80% of the forces could have them and each person could only have one. The rest would have nothing. Hence, the gov. created a transitory fixed sum to compensate those who would end up earning less money.

So what happened differs from force to force
1. the armed forces
a. those who had no ruling were paid mostly the same as before, except those with no suplementos, which even with that sum I mention were paid less
b. those with ruling were paid a a lot, a lot a lot less.

2. the security forces
since a large majority had the ruling, almost everyone got paid a lot less.
And those who had no ruling received a lot less too because of the reorganization of wages.

So now, on top of the wages they are claiming for a life insurance, freedom to choose the healthcare system that they want and some other things you can watch on tv.


behold the problem... Im tired of writing

Thank you. That makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[AngelinBA]

Thanks, Cuore, that was really clear and I almost feel like I understand the situation now.

 

[erian]

I was talking to my mother-in-law (She can't stand CK) about the whole mess at the moment in Argentina and where it will all lead to. We discussed everything from the economy, the insecurity in the streets and how we both think CK may have lost it a bit. Her constant 'bending of the truth' and how she seems to genuinely believe everything she says.

I threw in a comment about how I really hope it doesn't come to the point that she wants to hold onto power so much that she uses the army!

Now that I see this happening it could be the very reason she is looking for to strengthen her grip. I can't see it happening now, but if this strike doesn't end soon or if it gains strength and makes her nervous, who knows, because honestly anything is possible with this government. I just hope I'm completely wrong.