Presidential Transition

[Bajo_cero2]

Although K did finally receive Congressional approval for Redrado dismissal, it was after the fact and after he resigned. Please spare me the rule of law BS:
December 14 2009 President Cristina Kirchner issues a decree of necessity and urgency calling for $6.6 billion of the central bank’s $48 billion of reserves

January 6 2010 K issue Presidential Decree dismissing Redrado as central bank president for refusing to support her decree. Redrado refuses.

January 7 Kirchner issues another decree to fire Redrado, accusing him of “misconduct”

January 8 Redrado gets both decrees suspended by the courts. He is reinstated as central bank president

January 22 The government warns Redrado not to re-enter the central bank

January 24 Police bar Redrado from entering the central bank.

Fast forward:
December 10, 2015 Central Bank reports zero reserves. K pissed away the $48 billion.

If Macri wants to dismiss Vanolli, he has to go through the same sh...t but the Congress is not going to convalidates it.

Macri is too lazy.

 

[Pensador]

You mean political censorship or persecuting. Thank you for showing how anti-democratic you are. Patethic.

Before the last election I stood in a very very poor villa and watched the buying of votes via hands outs to the poorest of poor. Do not lecture me about democracy because that was not democracy it was corruption and manipulation. The more you post the less I respect you for not understanding what was going on around you but yet a dumb yankee saw with his own two eyes and understood.

 

[Gringoboy]

To quote you directly Bajo:
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]"We don't even know if Macri is going to be able to become the President or Michetti is going to be instead of him."[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Please explain the fuzzy logic (sic) behind this statement.[/background]

 

[semigoodlookin]

It really seems as though the outgoing goverment has a lot to lose, as does its supporters. The events of the last week by the (still) current regime have been disgusting, in bad faith at best and dangerous to the democratic process at worst. The fact that supporters (Bajo is very representitive of all the K supporters I know) are clingling so desperately to the ideaology in the face of overwhelming evidence and even plain old common sense shows that they too have a lot to lose.

All the threads regarding the elections (before and after) have been a torrent of nonsense from one poster, some of it just complete bullshit. What I have seen from incumbent government is terrible; has put a stinky air over the notion of democracy and made me ashamed to even be associated with Argentina and even its people, some of whom (as is evident here) fall for this crap.

 

[nicoenarg]

I read in the news papers that the Congress men of FPV were chanching teams but seems it is reverse because they got the quorum with 3 congremen of Cambiemos...

There wasn't a single Diputado from Cambiemos that gave them quorum.

 

[nicoenarg]

To quote you directly Bajo:
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]"We don't even know if Macri is going to be able to become the President or Michetti is going to be instead of him."[/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Please explain the fuzzy logic (sic) behind this statement.[/background]

I think he's talking about the fact that Macri is procesado. But the judge in the case said a year ago there's no evidence that Macri is involved. He's keeping him procesado "just because".

 

[Gringoboy]

Carlos Reymundo Roberts and his satirical take on the Olivos meeting.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1849605-cristina-y-macri-la-guerra-de-olivos

 

[ElQueso]

I loved almost at the end

-Cristina, actuás como si el país no hubiese elegido ya a tu sucesor. ¡Y un sucesor de la oposición! ¿No se te ocurre pensar que deberías bajar un cambio, dar un paso al costado, no estar hablando todos los días?

-Qué poco me conocés... ¿Desaprovechar el tiempo que me queda? ¿Dejarte el primer plano? ¿Irme en silencio? ¿Achicarme? ¿Parecer una derrotada? ¿Perder la mística? ¿Dejar solos a los míos? Enterate: soy la Presidenta en ejercicio, con plenos poderes, y al mismo tiempo me estoy presentando como la líder de la oposición. Enterate: te presto esta casa por cuatro años. Volveré.

See, this is the thing that many people don't understand about democracy and the law. It's one of the things that makes me despise government in general. It's the thing that Bajo, as a lawyer (as most lawyers) don't understand about the law.

Cristina gave it her best run for 8 years and an obvious majority of people, quite a large one, decided they did not like her plan. I say a quite large percentage because they were so fearful about her returning that only some 36% of the country wanted her candidate to begin with, in the elections. The only reason Macri didn't win bigger in the runoff was because of the fear that so many put in them about Macri being the devil and they simply found they couldn't vote for a non-peronist candidate. Not because they approved of Cristina's performance and liked her proposed successor, but rather because they hoped (possibly against hope) that Scioli would turn on her and not follow the same policies of economic tyranny and destruction (except for the 36% hardcore cases from the election that apparently think Cristina's excrement smells good).

Cristina's party has a very strong showing in congress at the moment - but that is from elections a couple of years ago, when things were not so close to the precipice and more people looked at her as infallible. As it is, they lost ground in both chambers of congress from those seats that were up this year.

Democratic principles are supposedly on what the law is based. To help guard those democratic principles. Democracy is not the same as law.

Comes to the end of a term, one should accept that the people have said "we're tired of the same old crap." Democracy was the act of voting, and the incumbent, outgoing government should listen to such voices in a democratic institution. One should accept that the people have not elected the incumbent as dictato - that, rather, they have chosen to end the incumbent's, or the incumbent's chosen succesor's policies. They have not chosen a continuation of stale, rotten policies, but have indeed rejected the policies of the now-outgoing incumbent and by extension, those of her chosen successor.

Cristina is a "successful lawyer". Bajo is a lawyer. Both seem to think that laws are the only thing that matter. Both seem to think that the spirit of democracy is uniquely the province of law, laws which are written by those who have been placed in power, under whatever unfair conditions those in power might use to side-step the wishes of a large portion of the population - as long as they stacked everything in their favor. Lawsare often used by these individuals like a child trying to justify some wrong-doing by repeating the exact words of their parent back to them as excuse, and not the intent that they understood all too well.

To continue to write laws that will affect the coming years even as they have been voted out of office is unconcionable and while it may be legal, it's not democratic.

Lawyers love to walk that fine line, to get what they want by way of legal fictions and tactics, not necessarily paying attention to legal intent. It's not democratic, refusing to provide a smooth transition for the next government and writing scores of new laws after they'd lost their mandate.

I see it more as an unruly child throwing a fit because she's not allowed to keep raising hell. But then again (thank god) I'm not a lawyer.

 

[EJLarson]

Comes to the end of a term, one should accept that the people have said "we're tired of the same old crap." Democracy was the act of voting, and the incumbent, outgoing government should listen to such voices in a democratic institution. One should accept that the people have not elected the incumbent as dictato - that, rather, they have chosen to end the incumbent's, or the incumbent's chosen succesor's policies. They have not chosen a continuation of stale, rotten policies, but have indeed rejected the policies of the now-outgoing incumbent and by extension, those of her chosen successor.

Watch again Gringoboy's post with the link to Reagan's first inagural address. The Carter-Reagan 1980 campaign had turned very nasty by the end (with most nastiness surprisingly coming from nice-guy Carter) and we can presume that neither one was happy that the other was there on the podium that day. But that's how it's done in a democracy. Someone wins and the loser accepts the results (which rather surprisingly did happen here, hallelujah!).

Reagan's graciousness to Carter is a model that every politician in a transition should study. It shows real class - and not because it was made mandatory by legal statute (which, ElQueso, I believe is your point).

 

[Gringoboy]

And I would venture that Daniel Scioli accepted defeat with dignity and later on didn't stoop to the level to which that Cristina has descended.
He's gone up in my estimation enormously and his sense of humour isn't just reserved for the lapdogs, unlike her of course.