Racist tweet by Trump re future immigration to the US

[JoeGillis]

Julian63 - .....immigration from Haiti and African nations needs to be tempered. I don't know the exact parameters of the proposed legislation admitting residents/citizens of those "shithole" nations to which he referred, but I believe a lottery system (I understand this to be a feature of the legislation) might not be appropriate given existing realities.

Alternative to lottery system?
http://braceroarchive.org/about
The Bracero Program, which brought millions of Mexican guest workers to the United States, ended more than four decades ago. Current debates about immigration policy-including discussions about a new guest worker program-have put the program back in the news and made it all the more important to understand this chapter of American history. Yet while top U.S. and Mexican officials re- examine the Bracero Program as a possible model, most Americans know very little about the program, the nation's largest experiment with guest workers. Indeed, until very recently, this important story has been inadequately documented and studied, even by scholars.

I grew up in San Francisco during the 60's. This program functioned reasonably well until 1964. While many 18+ year olds from working class families began enrolling in CA colleges, the migrant workers from Mexico sought out farming jobs under the program. The dismantling was mainly supported by the powerful unions which were deprived of funds derived from member dues.

Good luck to voters who helped to elect Trump. Those who denounce lack of jobs, are they willing to take over those tasks now being done by immigrants from "shithole" countries? California's farming, construction, residential/commercial cleaning services and the hospitality industries depend primarily on immigrants. As well as the nursing profession. Their labor maintains the functioning of these essential ancillary services.

Right on, Gracielle. And it's not only California, of course. Even Alabama, a bastion of Trumpism, cannot deny their dependence on immigrants, primarily due to their agro-based economy. Statewide, the agro communities are aghast at the idea of losing these workers, for they admit that non-immigrants simply will not step in to fill the void once the immigrants are gone. And, yet, they continue to support the Big Cheeto! Go figure!

 

[Traveler999]

And, yet, they continue to support the Big Cheeto!

That's a great name for that racist, misogynist moron. Just like a Cheeto, you can't get close without getting goo all over you.

 

[julian63]

Julian63 - .....immigration from Haiti and African nations needs to be tempered. I don't know the exact parameters of the proposed legislation admitting residents/citizens of those "shithole" nations to which he referred, but I believe a lottery system (I understand this to be a feature of the legislation) might not be appropriate given existing realities.

Alternative to lottery system?
http://braceroarchive.org/about
The Bracero Program, which brought millions of Mexican guest workers to the United States, ended more than four decades ago. Current debates about immigration policy-including discussions about a new guest worker program-have put the program back in the news and made it all the more important to understand this chapter of American history. Yet while top U.S. and Mexican officials re- examine the Bracero Program as a possible model, most Americans know very little about the program, the nation's largest experiment with guest workers. Indeed, until very recently, this important story has been inadequately documented and studied, even by scholars.

I grew up in San Francisco during the 60's. This program functioned reasonably well until 1964. While many 18+ year olds from working class families began enrolling in CA colleges, the migrant workers from Mexico sought out farming jobs under the program. The dismantling was mainly supported by the powerful unions which were deprived of funds derived from member dues.

Good luck to voters who helped to elect Trump. Those who denounce lack of jobs, are they willing to take over those tasks now being done by immigrants from "shithole" countries? California's farming, construction, residential/commercial cleaning services and the hospitality industries depend primarily on immigrants. As well as the nursing profession. Their labor maintains the functioning of these essential ancillary services.

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that a Bracero-like guest worker program ought to be incorporated into any new immigrant related legislation? I'm pretty sure that would not be geographically feasible for Haitians or people from African nations. If it were, I might be supportive of it.
Incidentally, I moved to San Francisco in 1976 and for a few years was manager of the SFNLAF (Legal Aid) Mission (Latino barrio) office. I can confirm much of what you say, however, I don't think it is correct to say that the California'' construction industry relies on migrant workers. Wages were high enough to attract a local work force. However, when I left CA in 2000, there were still many seasonal farm workers, many illegal restaurant employees, and a good number of commercial cleaning/gardening people from Mexico, Nicaragua, and other Latino countries.
As you indicate, the "seasonal" farm workers coming from Mexico to work in the fields of CA were willing to endure pretty bad working conditions because the low wages they earned (sent home to support their families) were significantly better than what they could earn in Mexico.

But I am a bit confused. What is the "dismantling" to which you refer? As my then Mexican girlfriend was quick to remind me, these migrant workers paid taxes (income and soc sec), but never benefitted from tax supported public services. I believe (not sure) that these seasonal workers/lettuce/orchard pickers also paid the equivalent of union dues despite not receiving union benefits. Accordingly, I don't comprehend why union bosses would want to dismantle the Bracero program. I will also confirm the Mexican work force was composed overwhelmingly of hard and reliable workers whether it was in the fields or as busboys/waiters hired illegally to work in restaurants. And they did jobs that US residents didn't want to do.

My point is simply that using a lottery system to randomly admit refugees from Haiti or African nations (or anywhere else in the world for that matter) may not be in the best interests of the American people given contemporary safety net, social service entitlements, not to mention a low 4% unemployment level. I would prefer a merit based qualification for the right to immigrate. As for the DACA program, that is something else. I don't have enough information about how many child "dreamers" would be affected by roll back of the law that allows them to remain in the US. Incidentally (again), a Federal judge just issued a restraining order barring recall of the DACA legislation thereby allowing some 800,000 kids to remain in the US. See https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/us/trump-daca-improper.html. Coincidentally, the judge, Bill Alsop, was a great lawyer with whom I interfaced on legal matters when I left SFNLAF and went to work for Wells Fargo.

 

[wineguy999]

Haiti and African have in common that the skin of its inhabitants is black. So, of course it is racism.

Oh, and El Salvador, of course.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

...you can't get close without getting goo all over you.

Erme - wasn't that Clinton?

 

[jeff1234]

1970's, 1980's 1990's while I lived in New York City Trump was a local 'character'. He was always in the news for one reason or another.

But I don't remember ever hearing that he was a racist. A loudmouth, a braggart, often wrong, tactless but never a 'racist'.

I miss the days when news people worked for a living. Woodward and Bernstein had to get confirmation from 2 reliable sources before they could publish a story.

 

[gracielle]

jeff1234 - But I don't remember ever hearing that he was a racist. A loudmouth, a braggart, often wrong, tactless but never a 'racist'.

Perhaps one answer is in the post by Julian63....
......As usual, Trump was not "politic", much less "presidential" in his expression of what US policy should be BUT the fact of the matter is that once a politically correct veneer is stripped away, many people share his view.....

I wonder what are his views in private? Trump the businessman didn't need to make public statements on this subject. But they were well suited to Trump the candidate.

Jeff1234 - I miss the days when news people worked for a living. Woodward and Bernstein had to get confirmation from 2 reliable sources before they could publish a story.

Do you have doubts about the veracity of Trump's statements on this subject?

 

[gracielle]

Julian63 - I'm not sure what your point is. Are you suggesting that a Bracero-like guest worker program ought to be incorporated into any new immigrant related legislation?

Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting. One tailored individually to each US state that may have a need for guest workers.

I'm pretty sure that would not be geographically feasible for Haitians or people from African nations.

Why would such a program not be feasible for Haitians or people from African nations?

 

[gracielle]

Julian63 - I don't think it is correct to say that the California'' construction industry relies on migrant workers. Wages were high enough to attract a local work force.

Yes, wages are high enough to attract a local work force but not necessarily all year round. Sometimes it is not entirely a question of wages. My ex-husband is a general contractor (sole proprietor). For the past 30 years he has been in the business of remodeling kitchens, bathrooms and garages in the CA Bay Area. They have more work than they can handle. All jobs are obtained by referral. No job is too small or too big. He has 8 Mexican-born employees (ranging from age 40-60+) who are legal US residents. He trained 4 of them himself. They earn union wages + a bonus for completion of each project within the contracted time. He sub-contracts electrical and plumbing.

In the last 5 years he has been unable to find any additional legal workers. During the months of Jan and Feb he shuts down his business. All 8 of his employees take those months off to return to their towns in Mexico. Some bought land there and are building their homes for when they retire. Others take their family to visit relatives.

During those months my ex takes jobs in the travel industry aboard cruise lines. As he likes to say... "he gets paid to travel the world".

August 29, 2017
After decades of pushing bachelor’s degrees, U.S. needs more tradespeople
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/decades-pushing-bachelors-degrees-u-s-needs-tradespeople

 

[gracielle]

Julian63 - ....But I am a bit confused. What is the "dismantling" to which you refer? As my then Mexican girlfriend was quick to remind me, these migrant workers paid taxes (income and soc sec), but never benefitted from tax supported public services.

That is not entirely correct. Yes, they paid the appropriate taxes, as it should be. But the migrant workers and their children in rural CA received public services from the local public health facilities such as routine medical exams, vaccinations and emerg medical care. Their children were bused to grammar schools nearby. Not an idyllic situation but they signed up for the program willingly out of financial need experienced back home.

I believe (not sure) that these seasonal workers/lettuce/orchard pickers also paid the equivalent of union dues despite not receiving union benefits.

No, they did not have to pay union dues nor they did want to when approached by union activists to join.

Accordingly, I don't comprehend why union bosses would want to dismantle the Bracero program.

Because these guest workers did not want to join any union. So loss of revenue to unions vying for additional membership. And that included the
the National Farm Workers Association (later the United Farm Workers union, UFW).

.....The UFW during Chavez's tenure was committed to restricting immigration. Chavez and Dolores Huerta, co-founder and president of the UFW, fought the Bracero Program that existed from 1942 to 1964. Their opposition stemmed from their belief that the program undermined U.S. workers and exploited the migrant workers. Since the Bracero Program ensured a constant supply of cheap immigrant labor for growers, immigrants could not protest any infringement of their rights, lest they be fired and replaced. Their efforts contributed to Congress ending the Bracero Program in 1964......

The end of the Bracero Program led in part to the influx of illegal immigrant labor as CA growers still needed farm laborers.
......On a few occasions, concerns that illegal immigrant labor would undermine UFW strike campaigns led to a number of controversial events, which the UFW describes as anti-strikebreaking events, but which have also been interpreted as being anti-immigrant. In 1969, Chavez and members of the UFW marched through the Imperial and Coachella Valleys to the border of Mexico to protest growers' use of illegal immigrants as strikebreakers. Joining him on the march were Reverend Ralph Abernathy and U.S. Senator Walter Mondale.[citation needed] In its early years, the UFW and Chavez went so far as to report illegal immigrants who served as strikebreaking replacement workers (as well as those who refused to unionize) to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.[17][18][19][20][21]. In 1973, the UFW was one of the first labor unions to oppose proposed employer sanctions that would have prohibited hiring illegal immigrants. Later during the 1980s, while Chavez was still working alongside Huerta, he was key in getting the amnesty provisions into the 1986 federal immigration act.[26]....

Cont....