Reasons to be sad

[John.St]

Seems like "jet-fighter Pampa II, totally designed and manufactured in Argentina (with the exception of the engine)" is a new ace up the sleeve for Cristina in forcing the issue on the Falklands

The FAdeA IA-63 Pampa II is a 2-seater trainer aircraft with a secondary ground attack role as a light fighter-bomber or air-to-air (carries a maximum weapon payload of 1,600 kg), and it's an upgraded AT-63 Pampa I, which itself is a rehashed Dassault/Dornier AlphaJet, except that it's smaller and has a maximum speed of 819 km/h (509 mph). It is powered by a Honeywell TFE731-40-N2 engine, rated at 4,250lb static thrust.

Not exactly a threat to a modern jet-fighter or AA unit.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

The FAdeA IA-63 Pampa II is a 2-seater trainer aircraft with a secondary ground attack role as a light fighter-bomber or air-to-air (carries a maximum weapon payload of 1,600 kg), and it's an upgraded AT-63 Pampa I, which itself is a rehashed Dassault/Dornier AlphaJet, except that it's smaller and has a maximum speed of 819 km/h (509 mph). It is powered by a Honeywell TFE731-40-N2 engine, rated at 4,250lb static thrust.

Not exactly a threat to a modern jet-fighter or AA unit.

That's pretty much an intermediate trainer aircraft for most modern air forces. My friends were flying Pampa's out of Mendoza airport six years ago when I was there. I got a tour. It was like looking at a flight school aircraft.

I would have a different view of the F-22. Yes, they are having some problems with the Ox systems and some other issues. We had the same types of things with the F/A-18 with vertical stabs ripping off during ACM. They fixed those, and then brought out the Super Hornet - looks the same but is really a different aircraft. The F-22 has an impressive kill record in simulations against multiple forces. In 1v6 (1 F-22 v 6 F-15's) it often kills all of the 15's before being seen. It would be what we call a "force-multiplier." That's a really good thing to have on the battlefield.

 

[joeteixido]

Well.. aircraft talk brought me here... so if I am O/T feel free to delete this.

Somebody said A-4ARs were upgraded to F-16C and while it is part true... the Radar is actually a downgraded APG-66 used in Very early F-16As. It has a glass cockpit but the software for it is downgraded so no BVR weaponry (i.e. no "long distance" missiles) or intelligent weapons delivery... AND more importantly it not supersonic... so is like a "tuned" Fiat 500 with the Corvette dashboard and Hummer wheels.

As an aviation and media correspondent I have been at their bases quite a few times. Only 6 of them are flyable and most pilots are loosing their combat readiness qualifications because of the lack of flight hours. Mirages are even worst, some are flying with hand me down parts from the Brazillian Mirages that were retired like 10 years ago. Only 4 are flyable, including a twin seater with limited combat capacity.

Pampas are trainers, it is a lovely aircraft that once competed to be the US Navy trainer IIRC (later won by the BAE Hawk), but nothing that can remotely compare to an F-16... it is in a whole other league!!!.

So as far as the "Farsa" Aerea goes, they are grossly underfunded and it is showing.

Got a lot of friends in there, awesome peeps and great pilots, including no less than 6 Malvinas Veterans, including Carballo, Velasco, Rinke who sunk the HMS Coventry... but honestly, if Chile ever make up their minds about the Patagonia it will be a tought position for the Argentinean military.

Not a month ago I was covering the 100 years of Military Aviation at the Air Force School in Cordoba. If anybody wants pictures just let me know and I will post some. I can't post'em all until they are publishied by the magazine in the UK but got a few I can share.

 

[redeemer]

I flew the F/A -18 C Hornet. I didn't have the thrust-to-weight ratio of the F-16 (that means I was relatively heavier).

I am jealous as hell about you flying the real machines which i have been flying in dreams only. indian govt is still flying those bugger MiGs !

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

I am jealous as hell about you flying the real machines which i have been flying in dreams only. indian govt is still flying those bugger MiGs !

There are a lot of places where you can get rides. It's worth the $1000 or whatever they are charging. It's like skydiving - you gotta do it at least once in your life.

The most fun I ever had was flying on and off ship in the daytime. However, it was by far the scariest as well. I never had fun flying off the ship at night. It was always a lot of work, and tense as hell!

A close second on the fun-meter was the trip I took from Moorehead MN to Ashland, AL in a super cub. I don't think I ever got above 300 AGL. Chasing cows was particularly rewarding.

 

[camberiu]

I am jealous as hell about you flying the real machines which i have been flying in dreams only. indian govt is still flying those bugger MiGs !

The Indian Airforce has an impressive inventory of combat aircraft besides aging MIGs. The Mirage 2000, flown by the IAF is a very decent aircraft, comparable to the F-16. The MIG-29 is not a shabby aircraft either. finally, the SU-30 Flankers operated by the IAF are extremely powerful aircraft and are designed to eat F-15s and F-18s for breakfast. You can see a small sample of what the Flanker can do here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2IDPSNrRaU

 

[camberiu]

I would have a different view of the F-22. Yes, they are having some problems with the Ox systems and some other issues. We had the same types of things with the F/A-18 with vertical stabs ripping off during ACM. They fixed those, and then brought out the Super Hornet - looks the same but is really a different aircraft. The F-22 has an impressive kill record in simulations against multiple forces. In 1v6 (1 F-22 v 6 F-15's) it often kills all of the 15's before being seen. It would be what we call a "force-multiplier." That's a really good thing to have on the battlefield.

On paper the F-22 is great. However, it has real issue when operating in the "real world". It turn out to be extremely expensive to manufacture and maintain. I mean, prohibitively expensive, even for the USAF. It costs about US$44K for each hour of flight, vs. US$5K on the F-16. There were issues with the radar absorbing paint, the oxygen system and a series of other bugs that are still being ironed out. In terms of combat readiness, the F-22 has been bellow the most modest expectations. Each hour flown by the F-22 takes 30 hours of ground maintenance. It is a plane completely unfit for use in the real world.

 

[camberiu]

Somebody said A-4ARs were upgraded to F-16C and while it is part true... the Radar is actually a downgraded APG-66 used in Very early F-16As. It has a glass cockpit but the software for it is downgraded so no BVR weaponry (i.e. no "long distance" missiles) or intelligent weapons delivery... AND more importantly it not supersonic... so is like a "tuned" Fiat 500 with the Corvette dashboard and Hummer wheels.

My point there was that even an old plane like the A-4, if upgraded with modern avionics and weapons, can be a quite formidable opponent. Maybe just not the the case of Argentina, due to lack of funds. The Brazilian Airforce has been very successful with the upgraded version of the F-5 Tiger II. Equipped with a modern and powerful pulse-doppler radar, datalink, glass cockpit and BVR missiles (Rafael Derby) and Sky Shadow jamming pods, the F-5M of the Brazilian Air Force did very well on the last Red Fleg exercise in the USA.
People tend to scoff at those old planes, but once fined tuned and modernized, they can be trouble even to the most modern fighter.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

Got a lot of friends in there, awesome peeps and great pilots, including no less than 6 Malvinas Veterans, including Carballo, Velasco, Rinke who sunk the HMS Coventry... but honestly, if Chile ever make up their minds about the Patagonia it will be a tought position for the Argentinean military.

Not a month ago I was covering the 100 years of Military Aviation at the Air Force School in Cordoba. If anybody wants pictures just let me know and I will post some. I can't post'em all until they are publishied by the magazine in the UK but got a few I can share.

Yes, please post. Very interesting. I read Carballo's book, Halcones de Malvinas. One of the better air combat books I've read.

 

[Gringoboy]

Rather than feeling sad, this thread has now put a smile on my face, even if I know absolutely zilch about warplanes, other than having seen a Spitfire and a Harrier up close