Residency Without Fitting Any Category !!!!

[pitipur]

thanks for the info -- very interesting option to possibly just do it now and be done with it. will have to check into the pros/cons of residency vs citizenship.

 

[jantango]

I know you mentioned it before but thought it may have been a typo - I can REALLY apply for citizenship, having only been here for a year and a half and with temporary residency that was approved for 1 year only, and only just in November? I thought it was similar to permanent residency that you needed several years of temporary residency before you could apply.

Sorry to the OP whose thread i have hijacked!

Frequently asked questions on the migraciones website:
http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/accesibleingles/?faq


5 - How can I manage the Argentine citizenship?

The procedure for obtaining Argentine citizenship must be made in judicial court.
- If you are domiciled in C.A.B.A. (Autonomous City of Buenos Aires), you may appear before the Federal Court of Appeals in Civil and Commercial, at Talcahuano 550 ground floor, office 2083, between 7:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.,
- Persons domiciled in the rest of the country should appear before the Federal National Court in Civil and Commercial closest to their domicile.

===============================================

The citizenship process through the court can be done without a lawyer and the only expenses are those related to translations, legalization, and publication.

It sounds to me like you could be living in the USA, but choose to work and live in Argentina.

 

[steveinbsas]

The citizenship process through the court can be done without a lawyer and the only expenses are those related to translations, legalization, and publication.

This should be the case since you already have a DNI. if you don't speak Spanish well, I suggest you at least go to the office of the court with someone who does. That person doesn't need to know anything about the process, just be able to ask the clerks in the office what you need to do to apply. You will need to be able to speak Spanish well enough to make a good impression on the judge when the time comes.

If the Secretary tells you that you have to have had temporary residency for three years followed by permanent residency for two years than you may need a lawyer (who doesn't tell you the same thing).

 

[jantango]

"a good impression on the judge when the time comes."

I wanted to meet the judge in my citizenship case to thank him for his decision, but I never had the opportunity. The only court personnel I spoke with were the clerks behind the counter handling the files.

Residency with a DNI is not a requirement to petition the court for citizenship.

 

[steveinbsas]

thanks for the info -- very interesting option to possibly just do it now and be done with it. will have to check into the pros/cons of residency vs citizenship.

This has been discussed in other threads, but here are the four "best" reasons (in my opinion) to try to get citizenship instead of permanent residency:

1, Permanent residency can be revoked much more easily than citizenship.

2. There is NO problem whatsoever in having dual citizenship with the USA.

3. Getting citizenship actually requires far less effort and (if you don't pay a lawyer) is much cheaper than getting and renewing temporary residency until it can be "upgraded" to permanent residency.

4. You will be able to get an Argentine passport.

 

[NickF]

thanks for the info -- very interesting option to possibly just do it now and be done with it. will have to check into the pros/cons of residency vs citizenship.

One con you to consider being a temporary resident (e.g. rentista) versus a permanent resident OR citizen is that if you are a citizen or permanent resident you will be required to pay taxes in Argentina on 1% of your assets, including those outside of Argentina. For instance, piipur, you would be required to pay a 1% tax on the value of your property overseas. I'm not an accountant, but this is my understanding of the law.

 

[steveinbsas]

One con you to consider being a temporary resident (e.g. rentista) versus a permanent resident OR citizen is that if you are a citizen or permanent resident you will be required to pay taxes in Argentina on 1% of your assets, including those outside of Argentina. For instance, piipur, you would be required to pay a 1% tax on the value of your property overseas. I'm not an accountant, but this is my understanding of the law.

I'm sure you meant to write that if you are a citizen or permanent resident you will be required to pay taxes in Argentina on 100% of your assets, including those outside of Argentina, but are you sure that the tax liability on foreign property is different for those with permanent residency is different from those with temporary residency?

The last time I had to deal with the issue of the bienes personales tax, the rate (at least on property in Argentina) for those with temporary or permanent residency was .5% (one half of one percent) and for non-residents the rate was 1.25 percent. At the time there was an exemption for paying the tax if the total value of the assets was less than $100K pesos. That was later raised to just over $300K pesos. Non-residents were/have always been charged the tax at a rate of 1.25% regardless of the value of their property.

I have also read that the tax applies to worldwide assets held by all temporary and permanent residents, but I don't know if that is accurate. I've never had to deal with that issue. I seriously doubt that many temporary residents are paying the tax on their worldwide assets even if they are liable to pay, and I have strong doubts about permanent residents as well.

PS: The only "reason" I was ever 'enrolled" in AFIP was to pay the bienes personales" tax. After the tax threshold was raised to $300K peos I no longer had anything to declare. When I went to the AFIP office in the nearby town to change my address after moving to my present location, I was informed that I am "officially" listed as being "afurera" the system...with nothing to declare and nothing to pay.

 

[NickF]

I'm sure you meant to write that if you are a citizen or permanent resident you will be required to pay taxes in Argentina on 100% of your assets, including those outside of Argentina, but are you sure that the tax liability on foreign property is different for those with permanent residency is different from those with temporary residency?

The last time I had to deal with the issue of the bienes personales tax, the rate (at least on property in Argentina) for those with temporary or permanent residency was .5% and for non-residents the rate was 1.25 percent. There was an exemption for, paying the tax if the total value of the assets was less than $100K pesos. That was later raised to just over $300K pesos. Non-residents were/have always been charged the tax at a rate of 1.25% regardless of the value of their property.

I have also read that the tax applies to worldwide assets held by all temporary and permanent residents, but I don't know if that is accurate. I've never had to deal with that issue. I seriously doubt that many temporary residents are paying the tax on their worldwide assets even if they are liable to pay, and I have strong doubts about permanent residents as well.

That's right Steve. I meant to say you are taxed 1% on 100% of your assets outside of Argentina. I'm hesitant to say I'm sure about anything related to this topic, but I've been advised by someone I trust on this. So I'd have to say I'm "fairly certain" that it is different for a temporary resident versus a permanent resident. That is, the temporary resident is not required to pay taxes on their assets outside Argentina. The permanent resident is obligated to pay this tax. Can't speak to what others do in practice.

Again, I'm not an expert on this topic. But I would advise that if you have assets outside of Argentina and you are considering permanent residency in Argentina, you might want to be absolutely certain what the tax implications are.

 

[steveinbsas]

That's right Steve. I meant to say you are taxed 1% on 100% of your assets outside of Argentina. I'm hesitant to say I'm sure about anything related to this topic, but I've been advised by someone I trust on this. So I'd have to say I'm "fairly certain" that it is different for a temporary resident versus a permanent resident. That is, the temporary resident is not required to pay taxes on their assets outside Argentina. The permanent resident is obligated to pay this tax. Can't speak to what others do in practice.

Again, I'm not an expert on this topic. But I would advise that if you have assets outside of Argentina and you are considering permanent residency in Argentina, you might want to be absolutely certain what the tax implications are.

Thanks, Nick. You're probably correct and this raises another important issue: taxes on world wide income for permanent residents and/or naturalized citizens. It took a while, but it was eventually "established" here that temporary residents are (generally) not liable to pay taxes on their world wide income. An advance search of the phrase taxes for temporary residents will provide posts that deal with that subject.

I can imagine that taxes on foreign income for someone considering becoming a permanent resident would be a greater issue than taxes on foreign assets (many expats don't have any). It could be an even more serious issue for someone with a via rentista who's income is derived from rents of a foreign property (house or apartment(s) if they become a permanent resident or citizen. They would face paying taxes on both income and assets (with no place to hide).

On the other hand, someone with a foreign income that is below the taxable level in Argentina might be wise to get permanent residency as soon as they are eligible to avoid having to try to renew their temporary residency at an increased future rate that could be higher than their income (anyone with "low" monthly Social Security benefits for example). For those who don't have any foreign assets and also have a low income, citizenship becomes the obvious choice.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

One con you to consider being a temporary resident (e.g. rentista) versus a permanent resident OR citizen is that if you are a citizen or permanent resident you will be required to pay taxes in Argentina on 1% of your assets, including those outside of Argentina. For instance, piipur, you would be required to pay a 1% tax on the value of your property overseas. I'm not an accountant, but this is my understanding of the law.

Not accurate. Taxes has to be paid if you live here over 6 month per year. Read the income tax law.