Return To Ba/still Worthwhile?

[Girino]

For the OP: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2049427-paige-la-estadounidense-que-se-enamoro-de-buenos-aires-y-suena-con-ser-colectivera-en-otra-vida

 

[Jaredberryman]

Basic male haircut costs the same in Argentina and Australia - approx 15USD.

Average salary close to $1500 USD in Argentina, $4000-5000 USD in Australia... Please explain - the only explanation I have is people here charge what they want and the market absorbs it - there is no real price discovery that forces prices to stay down. Its like every industry behaves as its own mafia where everyone agrees to fix prices high (eg supermarkets).

This country is its own worst enemy when it comes to pricing things - its an absolute clusterfuck.

I think it's a lot more complex than just competing on price. That is true--it's a small country and there are just a few businesses, so that's part of it. But the other part of it is:

- Labor unions have sucked both employees and corporations dry of money. They rob from both.
- The time cost of doing business and paperwork here greatly drives up prices. If you have a service provider, say to a super market, that comes to paint the supermarket, he has to have a special receipt, and maybe go downtown to charge his check, and then finally maybe go to his own bank. If you have even a small to medium sized business, you have to have an extra employee just to process payments. And so on and so on. It makes doing business much more expensive, and this is reflected in the price.
- Taxes are astronomically high. People are always so quick to agree to raise corporate taxes. But the corporations never pay for that. You do. 21 percent IVA. Absurd.
- The businesses here are just inefficient and way behind on how they do business. It takes an hour after 5 PM to check out at a grocery store/supermarket. So if I need something quick, I don't go to Carrefour. They lose a lot of business like this to more efficient business models, and it makes the price more expensive in turn, too. Also, the providers are very inefficient, so they don't know how to cut costs, either, and it all adds up. But labor unions make sure no one competes with their already rigged system.
- Infrastructure sucks, and the government electric and gas providers charge you a premium. It ain't so subsidized for businesses, and since the utility companies are run by sleazy government officials or their cronies. unsubsidized prices are frightful. You also pay for this when you purchase a product.
- If you hire an employee, you can get taxed more for your employee than what you pay the employee. So no one wants to hire employees and grow their business or compete, because it's a huge risk. Not to mention all the stupid labor laws that basically prevent you from firing anyone (yes, you can, but you will pay a massive amount of money, especially if they have any seniority). So no one wants to hire anyone. They're content not to compete further, and risk their business going under, because at least they have a stable income in an unstable country.
- Corruption, theft from businesses by employees, theft and robbery (drives up insurance), and the like are rampant. Thus this is reflected in your pricing.

I could go on and on. If the government here would quit giving out so many freebies, quit taxing people to death, and would let people run their businesses in peace, pricing would definitely go down. Also, the labor unions need to be weakened so that manufacturing can at least have a chance to make a comeback.

 

[Mano Negra]

I don't think I have posted on this site in years but I'm still here 9 years later, fully legal now, and thought I would balance out a little of the negativity. I don't know about Argentina but I reckon Buenos Aires gets better every year. Food wise, culture wise, public space wise, transport wise, etc etc. I cannot comprehend what the guy who says BA is boring would consider interesting!! Literally every interest is covered here (ojo, you do need to speak the language), and I have learnt more about different areas of art and music than I would have in London because so much of it (yes a really enormous amount) is free to access.

But what I wanted to mention, after all the negativity people write about starting a business, is the flip side. The amazing positivity of your friends, how people go out of their way to promote and assist you. How they jump in if you have a problem and try and help out. During the K years, I survived with little businesses (hospitality) that previously I had never been involved in. When the market opened I moved back to investment banking. The lack of snobbery, the support for WHATEVER you are doing, the value of personal relationships! Frankly these are things you still find in BA but certainly wont in London or NY.

Only come if you feel a bond to the city and the people, but if that is the case don't ever feel embarrassed to ask for help. The Argentines love to get involved and are your best tool to a happy life. You just have to know how to ask!

 

[mmoon]

this is a completely personal decison.
I am a gringo, I live in BA part time because I love it. I dont find it more expensive than the pacific northwest, where I live the rest of the time- with 2 important caveats-
1- I own my apartment in BA- hence, I avoid a lot of hassles.
2- I live in a VERY expensive part of the USA- rents in Seattle are far higher than BA, for example- my kid has been paying $1100 a month for a one room apartment, with a kitchenette in the corner, in a crummy building with one window that looks out on the garbage cans. Average for a nice tiny room in Seattle is more like $1500-$2000.
So, for me, if you remove rent, (which I have, by buying in 2007) my overall monthly cost in Buenos Aires is lower than in the USA.
Utilities are far less, and equivalent apples for apples food is cheaper- I buy organic and small producer in the USA, and my organic eggs are cheaper in Barrio Norte.

But, really- it depends if you WANT to live in BA or not. If you do, you will find a place. you will figure out a phone plan. and you will find what you need to buy.

Most of the expats I know in BA are not there for a relationship, but because they like the city- but they are older, and mostly have already existing long term relationships. I know a bunch of expat couples who moved part or full time to BA.
I, personally, find Seattle much more boring.

I would add that there is a HUGE difference between living in Bs As part time and living here full time.

 

[citygirl]

I would add that there is a HUGE difference between living in Bs As part time and living here full time.

Also a huge difference if you're living in BsAs as a retired person or actually working in an office for an Argentine company. Not that one is better than the other but..if you have to commute every day to an office and deal with all the hassles of that, it is just different.

 

[Winterfell]

What lifestyle will your money buy? The same city can be heaven or hell depending on the size of your wealth. Not just BA: any city.

How much you've got in the bank and the size of your annuity, as a retired person, or how much you earn yearly from any income, local or international, that's the one key issue.

Just today I heard a saying I didn't know: "When hunger knocks on the door, love goes out of the window". Open to debate if it's true or not for solid relationships, but when it comes to loving a place, that's probably spot on.

 

[chris]

I don't think I have posted on this site in years but I'm still here 9 years later, fully legal now, and thought I would balance out a little of the negativity. I don't know about Argentina but I reckon Buenos Aires gets better every year. Food wise, culture wise, public space wise, transport wise, etc etc. I cannot comprehend what the guy who says BA is boring would consider interesting!! Literally every interest is covered here (ojo, you do need to speak the language), and I have learnt more about different areas of art and music than I would have in London because so much of it (yes a really enormous amount) is free to access.

But what I wanted to mention, after all the negativity people write about starting a business, is the flip side. The amazing positivity of your friends, how people go out of their way to promote and assist you. How they jump in if you have a problem and try and help out. During the K years, I survived with little businesses (hospitality) that previously I had never been involved in. When the market opened I moved back to investment banking. The lack of snobbery, the support for WHATEVER you are doing, the value of personal relationships! Frankly these are things you still find in BA but certainly wont in London or NY.

Only come if you feel a bond to the city and the people, but if that is the case don't ever feel embarrassed to ask for help. The Argentines love to get involved and are your best tool to a happy life. You just have to know how to ask!

Lack of snobbery? in Buenos Aires? Are you serious?

 

[Tres Picos]

Another, boomer shocked and angry about "populism." :lol:

 

[Tres Picos]

Argentina has definitely lost its lust... Most gringos still here are because of a relationship. Such a shame but the country is a result of its people...

The entire West, which Argentina is part of, is in free fall. Compared to even mediocre countries in Asia, getting anything done is difficult, the infrastructure is a joke, and people are resigned to being preyed on by criminals.