Right Vs Left

[middlepath]

Can someone explain politics here in Argentina? I know people like jeremiahs are super anti-left to the point of almost hatred but I have no idea what the left or right stand for here or who belongs to what group. Is there a basic primer? I know it's different than in the US because in the US the worst you can be on the left is a hippie and the worst you can be on the right is a literal nazi.

 

[Alpinista]

The usual left - right thing doesnt work here in my view.
Especially the Peronism is a strange concept: Originally, it was founded by guys who were ideologically quite close to fascist ideals in Europe in the 30s and 40s (especially Peron itself). So there is quite a nationalistic element in them (they also bring Malvinas up, much more than it was the case under Macri).
Economically they are very socialist, a very protected local market that basically produces nothing that could be sold internationally. (But that wasnt different in non-peronist government in years)
An Argentinian speciality are also the unions / sindicatos. Whereas in the West they are seen as a force to protect workers rights, here they are more some sort of criminal gangs. They have absolutely no problem to hold the country at ransom if it somehow serves their particular interests.

 

[Renzi]

The traditional concepts of left and right don't really apply here, in the way that they don't really apply In the US. As a leftist, I wouldn't consider hippies to be on the left, because the 60s hippies primarily came from a white middle-class background and went on to become Reagan Democrats. Current hippies aren't much different, and most will end up in rehab or becoming born-again Christians. They're generally not intelligent enough to have a defined political position outside of being "anti-racist" and pro-abortion. Antifa et al. aren't leftists either, most of them are just unhinged people or undercover cops.

Here you have Peronists, or their current incarnation known as Kirchnerists, and everyone else. They're basically a center-left populist party that enjoys a fair amount of political hegemony and get voted out every now and then, but they keep coming back. The right, or Macrists, is your generic Latin American reactionary party, beholden to the US and international financial interests, like Paul Singer and the World Bank, and Evangelical Christians (but to a lesser extent than in Brazil).

 

[antipodean]

Paradigms don't really work here. Argentina is its own world.

Roughly speaking "Frente de Todos" is left and "Juntos x Cambio" is right. But....

Since the return of democracy you have:

- Communists (far, far-left. Small political presence. Kinda written off as the angry crazies who smoke too much weed.)

- Socialists (left but moderate and similar to a labour party in UK/AUS/NZ/Canada/Nordic countries etc. Think Europe and not the USSR. Small political presence, traditionally more active in some provinces like Santa Fe.)

- Peronists (A total mixed bag of ultra-nationalists with its own idealogy, from actual fascists on one side to Venezuelan/ Cuban style extremists on another. Somewhere in the middle there are also boring career politicians. Generally more progressive on social rights. Economically they vary from capitalist / corporatist to socialist or even chavismo. Unfortunately, I can't sum up their politics since it involves something like 20 very wordy, generic and often contradictory tenants which leave the reader feeling more confused than before they asked the question "what is Peronism?". During democratic times, they have ruled Argentina for the majority of the 20th and 21st centuries and they are perhaps the most long-standing political party.)

- Various neoliberal factions sometimes referred to as Macrists, even if they can't actually stand the fool (centre-right to the far, far-right and usually coalition parties rather than a long-standing party or movement like the US GOP. Usually more conservative on social rights such as abortion etc. Economically, pretty much like any conservative party in UK / AUS/ NZ/ Canada etc. Pretty bland and don't usually come with so much nationalism attached.)

To summarize, everyone has their own political fetish and sees the world based on their own personal reality and pasión. That means the only way to really get things done is with coalitions and muchos frenemies.

Like everything in Argentina, politics is fluid.

 

[Alpinista]

The traditional concepts of left and right don't really apply here, in the way that they don't really apply In the US. As a leftist, I wouldn't consider hippies to be on the left, because the 60s hippies primarily came from a white middle class background and went on to become Reagan Democrats. Current hippies aren't much different, and most will end up in rehab or becoming born-again Christians. They're generally not intelligent enough to have a defined political position outside of being "anti-racist" and pro-abortion. Antifa et al. aren't really leftists either, most of them are just unhinged people or undercover cops.

Here you have Peronists, or their current incarnation known as Kirchnerists, and everyone else. They're basically a center-left populist party that enjoys a fair amount of political hegemony and get voted out every now and then, but they keep coming back. The right, or Macrists, is your generic Latin American reactionary party, beholden to the US and international financial insterests, like Paul Singer and the World Bank, and Evangelical Christians (but to a lesser extent than in Brazil).

I see Macri - in US terms - as a moderate Republican. What was reactionary about him during his term? (Well, if you see traditional Republicans - I am not talking about Trump and his cronies - as reactionary, then of course you are right)

 

[Alpinista]

Paradigms don't really work here. Argentina is its own world.

Roughly speaking "Frente de Todos" is left and "Juntos x Cambio" is right. But....

Since the return of democracy you have:

- Communists (far, far-left. Small political presence. Kinda written off as the angry crazies who smoke too much weed.)

- Socialists (left but moderate and similar to a labour party in UK/AUS/NZ/Canada/Nordic countries etc. Think Europe and not the USSR. Small political presence, traditionally more active in some provinces like Santa Fe.)

- Peronists (A total mixed bag of ultra-nationalists with its own idealogy, from actual fascists on one side to Venezuelan/ Cuban style extremists on another. Somewhere in the middle there are also boring career politicians. Generally more progressive on social rights. Economically they vary from capitalist / corporatist to socialist / chavismo. Unfortunately, I can't sum up their politics since it involves something like 20 very wordy, generic and often contradictory tenants which leave the reader feeling more confused than before they asked the question "what is Peronism?". During democratic times, they have ruled Argentina for the majority of the 20th and 21st centuries and they are perhaps the most long-standing political party.)

- Various neoliberal factions sometimes referred to as Macrists, even if they can't actually stand the fool (centre-right to the far, far-right and usually coalition parties rather than a long-standing party or movement like the US GOP. Usually more conservative on social rights such as abortion etc. Economically, pretty much like any conservative party in UK / AUS/ NZ/ Canada etc. Pretty bland and don't usually come with so much nationalism attached.)

To summarize, everyone has their own political fetish and sees the world based on their own personal reality and pasión. That means the only way to really get things done is with coalitions and muchos frenemies.

Like everything in Argentina, politics is fluid.

On abortion: although (paradoxically) the Kirchnerism is closer to the pope, it was actually Macri who brought this thing on the table (to parliament), even though personally he is against it. I guess to a certain extent it sums up the politics here, full of contradictions

 

[wineguy999]

"...I wouldn't consider hippies to be on the left, because the 60s hippies primarily came from a white middle-class background and went on to become Reagan Democrats."

Certificate, please.

 

[Alby]

Paradigms don't really work here. Argentina is its own world.

Roughly speaking "Frente de Todos" is left and "Juntos x Cambio" is right. But....

Since the return of democracy you have:

- Communists (far, far-left. Small political presence. Kinda written off as the angry crazies who smoke too much weed.)

- Socialists (left but moderate and similar to a labour party in UK/AUS/NZ/Canada/Nordic countries etc. Think Europe and not the USSR. Small political presence, traditionally more active in some provinces like Santa Fe.)

- Peronists (A total mixed bag of ultra-nationalists with its own idealogy, from actual fascists on one side to Venezuelan/ Cuban style extremists on another. Somewhere in the middle there are also boring career politicians. Generally more progressive on social rights. Economically they vary from capitalist / corporatist to socialist or even chavismo. Unfortunately, I can't sum up their politics since it involves something like 20 very wordy, generic and often contradictory tenants which leave the reader feeling more confused than before they asked the question "what is Peronism?". During democratic times, they have ruled Argentina for the majority of the 20th and 21st centuries and they are perhaps the most long-standing political party.)

- Various neoliberal factions sometimes referred to as Macrists, even if they can't actually stand the fool (centre-right to the far, far-right and usually coalition parties rather than a long-standing party or movement like the US GOP. Usually more conservative on social rights such as abortion etc. Economically, pretty much like any conservative party in UK / AUS/ NZ/ Canada etc. Pretty bland and don't usually come with so much nationalism attached.)

To summarize, everyone has their own political fetish and sees the world based on their own personal reality and pasión. That means the only way to really get things done is with coalitions and muchos frenemies.

Like everything in Argentina, politics is fluid.

I quite liked this summary. But where would you consider the UCR in this the scheme? Another one of the neo-liberal factions?

 

[antipodean]

I quite liked this summary. But where would you consider the UCR in this the scheme? Another one of the neo-liberal factions?

A socialist swing-vote.
Economically socialist. Politically, opportune.

 

[middlepath]

Paradigms don't really work here. Argentina is its own world.

Roughly speaking "Frente de Todos" is left and "Juntos x Cambio" is right. But....

Since the return of democracy you have:

- Communists (far, far-left. Small political presence. Kinda written off as the angry crazies who smoke too much weed.)

- Socialists (left but moderate and similar to a labour party in UK/AUS/NZ/Canada/Nordic countries etc. Think Europe and not the USSR. Small political presence, traditionally more active in some provinces like Santa Fe.)

- Peronists (A total mixed bag of ultra-nationalists with its own idealogy, from actual fascists on one side to Venezuelan/ Cuban style extremists on another. Somewhere in the middle there are also boring career politicians. Generally more progressive on social rights. Economically they vary from capitalist / corporatist to socialist or even chavismo. Unfortunately, I can't sum up their politics since it involves something like 20 very wordy, generic and often contradictory tenants which leave the reader feeling more confused than before they asked the question "what is Peronism?". During democratic times, they have ruled Argentina for the majority of the 20th and 21st centuries and they are perhaps the most long-standing political party.)

- Various neoliberal factions sometimes referred to as Macrists, even if they can't actually stand the fool (centre-right to the far, far-right and usually coalition parties rather than a long-standing party or movement like the US GOP. Usually more conservative on social rights such as abortion etc. Economically, pretty much like any conservative party in UK / AUS/ NZ/ Canada etc. Pretty bland and don't usually come with so much nationalism attached.)

To summarize, everyone has their own political fetish and sees the world based on their own personal reality and pasión. That means the only way to really get things done is with coalitions and muchos frenemies.

Like everything in Argentina, politics is fluid.

This was the most helpful answer to me.