Right Vs Left

So its participation in Cambiemos was electoral opportunism with partners who had a quite different economic agenda?
Yes - I mean weren’t they suspended from the International Socialist organization as a result of this coalition...?
 
Paradigms don't really work here. Argentina is its own world.

Roughly speaking "Frente de Todos" is left and "Juntos x Cambio" is right. But....

Since the return of democracy you have:

- Communists (far, far-left. Small political presence. Kinda written off as the angry crazies who smoke too much weed.)

- Socialists (left but moderate and similar to a labour party in UK/AUS/NZ/Canada/Nordic countries etc. Think Europe and not the USSR. Small political presence, traditionally more active in some provinces like Santa Fe.)

- Peronists (A total mixed bag of ultra-nationalists with its own idealogy, from actual fascists on one side to Venezuelan/ Cuban style extremists on another. Somewhere in the middle there are also boring career politicians. Generally more progressive on social rights. Economically they vary from capitalist / corporatist to socialist or even chavismo. Unfortunately, I can't sum up their politics since it involves something like 20 very wordy, generic and often contradictory tenants which leave the reader feeling more confused than before they asked the question "what is Peronism?". During democratic times, they have ruled Argentina for the majority of the 20th and 21st centuries and they are perhaps the most long-standing political party.)

- Various neoliberal factions sometimes referred to as Macrists, even if they can't actually stand the fool (centre-right to the far, far-right and usually coalition parties rather than a long-standing party or movement like the US GOP. Usually more conservative on social rights such as abortion etc. Economically, pretty much like any conservative party in UK / AUS/ NZ/ Canada etc. Pretty bland and don't usually come with so much nationalism attached.)

To summarize, everyone has their own political fetish and sees the world based on their own personal reality and pasión. That means the only way to really get things done is with coalitions and muchos frenemies.

Like everything in Argentina, politics is fluid.
The one point I am always wondering: why is Macri labelled as neoliberal? examples:

1) Airline market: we have the situation that Aerolineas is heavily subsidized by the state (also in “normal” times). Whereas he opened the market to some extent, he didnt really touch the AA privileges. So basically a state that is chronically bankrupt is paying big money to its national carrier, and making life very difficult for other companies.
2) Workers rights: the neoliberal view would be to make the employee market more flexibel. Currently the workers rights are so rigid, that a lot of companies are afraid to hire because they cant reduce the workforce if things do not work out as planned. If you agree or not with this, Macri didnt do much to make the laws more company friendly
3) in many areas the unions are so strong, that they are crippling competition and make it very difficult for new companies to create jobs and new businesses

In my view the Macri years were certainly not neoliberal years.
 
Local politics looks like more between absolutist who regrets the independecy of Spain and those who agree with the 1810 Revolution but there are 2 wings, one who agreea with democracy and the other who wants a local king who nowadays we call nazis.
While Macri clearly is an absolutist, the Ks and the radicales alsonsinostas are the secong group while among the nazis we have dark persons like Pichetto.
You have people in all the parties mixed of all these three political wings.
While 1 and 3 are pro slave or serfdom, the 2 are catholic anti slavery.
Regarding economy, MM is not liberal as some people here thinks because only who were close to him made busisness and this was the economy of the Viceroy.
2 and 3 has a nationalsocialist approach.
It means that politics wings are medieval and here we have to add the fact that the Spain/Italy societies are mozarabs, it means, a blend between catholics and muslims who were forcely converted but kept the islam politicas ideas. What we call the righ here are this former muslims.
1 and 3 are pro medieval, the 2 is mild about it.
The comunist party needs a developed society and this is why the left here is a joke.
 
The one point I am always wondering: why is Macri labelled as neoliberal? examples:

1) Airline market: we have the situation that Aerolineas is heavily subsidized by the state (also in “normal” times). Whereas he opened the market to some extent, he didnt really touch the AA privileges. So basically a state that is chronically bankrupt is paying big money to its national carrier, and making life very difficult for other companies.
2) Workers rights: the neoliberal view would be to make the employee market more flexibel. Currently the workers rights are so rigid, that a lot of companies are afraid to hire because they cant reduce the workforce if things do not work out as planned. If you agree or not with this, Macri didnt do much to make the laws more company friendly
3) in many areas the unions are so strong, that they are crippling competition and make it very difficult for new companies to create jobs and new businesses

In my view the Macri years were certainly not neoliberal years.
Totally.

In practice "Neoliberalism" in Argentina simply is not neoliberalism one would find abroad. Well perhaps since the 90s.

It is strange because I don't remember shopping on Amazon was any easier back in the days of Macri, nor having more flexibility in how I structure my labour. It was perhaps more attractive for foreigners to invest here provided they agreed to play by the rules, not something that is unreasonable anywhere in the world, but it was not like he was selling off the assets of the state as you point out.

Those who label the Macri years as neolib struggle to point to anything beyond currency controls, borrowing and austerity as being proof of some kind of extreme neoliberalism. Even the "minor" pension reform he proposed which caused a huge stink was not actually implemented... it was actually implemented this year by Alberto whose measures went even further. Go figure.

What is even more laughable is that Alberto (an opponent to neo-liberalism in Argentina) came out recently saying his vision for the future of Argentina is to be like Norway or Finland. Ironic because these countries are hardcore extreme super duper ultra-neolib compared to Argentina - they are open to the world and the role of the state is far more limited. Coming from a country myself whose closest economic and political parallel is actually Finland, and which is also ranked as the easiest place in the world to do business, I am stunned by the stupidity of politicians here.
 
In general terms, Macri could be described as a neoliberal because one just needs to look at his allies in the region and internationally. He and Bolsonaro have publicly complimented each other's policies, for instance. The recent ani-quarantine protests that he either directly or indirectly supported were right out of the Trump-Bolso script.

The peculiarity of Argentina's politics obviously limited the extent to which that he could implement the neoliberal program as president, but that doesn't mean that it's not a long term objective of his backers. If he had made it to a second term I'm sure we would have seen more assertive "business-friendly" policies.
 
In general terms, Macri could be described as a neoliberal because one just needs to look at his allies in the region and internationally. He and Bolsonaro have publicly complimented each other's policies, for instance. The recent ani-quarantine protests that he either directly or indirectly supported were right out of the Trump-Bolso script.

The peculiarity of Argentina's politics obviously limited the extent to which that he could implement the neoliberal program as president, but that doesn't mean that it's not a long term objective of his backers. If he had made it to a second term I'm sure we would have seen more assertive "business-friendly" policies.

I am not sure the UCR block in his coalition would let them go as far as a US style system. I see European social democracy as realistically being as far as Argentina is able to go given the strength of labour here and also the strong and long standing social programs that are in place and are actually respected by the majority of Argentines.

I feel that people just love to exaggerate here and go straight to the extremes when discussing politics to trash their opponents. Destination Venezuela on one side and destination USA on the other. Neither of those destinations are "right" for Argentina.
 
In general terms, Macri could be described as a neoliberal because one just needs to look at his allies in the region and internationally. He and Bolsonaro have publicly complimented each other's policies, for instance. The recent ani-quarantine protests that he either directly or indirectly supported were right out of the Trump-Bolso script.

The peculiarity of Argentina's politics obviously limited the extent to which that he could implement the neoliberal program as president, but that doesn't mean that it's not a long term objective of his backers. If he had made it to a second term I'm sure we would have seen more assertive "business-friendly" policies.
In one point I agree: the fact that he didnt implement so called neoliberal measures doesnt mean that he did not want to implement them (gradualismo).
And that in Brazil is a right wing populist in power, doesnt make him automatically neoliberal. The Brazilian market is a highly protected market with prohibitive import taxes. So they are producing mostly for the Mercosur, selling each other products which they can't sell internationally (obviously Brazil is a bit more competitive, with a few competitive companies, eg embraer).
 
Totally.

What is even more laughable is that Alberto (an opponent to neo-liberalism in Argentina) came out recently saying his vision for the future of Argentina is to be like Norway or Finland. Ironic because these countries are hardcore extreme super duper ultra-neolib compared to Argentina - they are open to the world and the role of the state is far more limited. Coming from a country myself whose closest economic and political parallel is actually Finland, and which is also ranked as the easiest place in the world to do business, I am stunned by the stupidity of politicians here.

Finland actually has one of the highest expenditures of social spending as percentage of GDP in the world. That's about as far from neoliberalism as you can get. The US is not even in the top 20, and no Latin American nation is even in the top 30. Most developed nations, except the US, more closely follow the Keynesian economic model, not neoliberalism, which basically combines free markets with a strong welfare state.
 
thanks for that article- really interesting. Of course, beyond Germany, (where many of those familes STILL own everything) it applies to Argentina

That's true and applies to the 3 power centers of Argentina - crony capitalists, politicians and unions.

The same families as always own all the wealth, the same families as always are involved in politics, the same families as always hold powerful positions in unions. The system as it is in Argentina works for those who have power. Try to change anything meaningful and you'll get pushback from one or more of these groups. Although they have some function, they are mostly parasites that weaken the country at every turn.
 
Finland actually has one of the highest expenditures of social spending as percentage of GDP in the world. That's about as far from neoliberalism as you can get. The US is not even in the top 20, and no Latin American nation is even in the top 30. Most developed nations, except the US, more closely follow the Keynesian economic model, not neoliberalism, which basically combines free markets with a strong welfare state.
Correct. But they have flexible labour laws, free currencies, an open market and a system that places more limits on government power - the things that Argentina, its politicians and many of their followers resist the most and refer to as "Neoliberal" - going back to my first point about paradigms not really being a thing here except to serve as an insult or slogan.
 
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