Seeking Advise From Senior Ba Expats

[Ceviche]

hey, I wanted to get your feedback on a personal issue especially from the senior expats/local Argies such as Steve in BA, Rodolfo Walsh, Nikad, Garciela, Rich one, McKena, Nosedeayar etc

So I have a 2 year ( non-touristic) non-garantia rental lease of a unfurnished apartment. Its expiring in Dec'16. My landlord is a European guy who lives in Asia. When I signed the lease, it was done through a real estate agent who had the power of attorney from him to do so on his behalf. My landlord has not been to BA since 2010.

I pay him the rent in USD, which makes it easy for both of us. The rent remained the same for the entire 2 months since its in USD.

The lease is very crystal clear with all terms anc conditions laid out very very clearly. It was actually pretty much in my favor. As I had prepared it myself, and the real estate agent had signed it on his behalf. My landlord is almost zero in Spanish.

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So recently, I wrote to him that I want to stay for another 2 years. I suggested we continued on the same rent/ terms and conditions as before, for another 2 years. He promptly agreed. However, when I wrote to him that i will contact that agent, who has the power of attorney, to do the necessary paper-work - he promptly replied that there is no point that each of us give commissions to the real estate agent and we can just continue the way we are on "mutual trust".

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So my question to you senior expats. What would you do in my situation. Would it be prudent to pay the real estate agents fees ( probably 2000 usd or more) or follow the advise of my landlord.

Could I live to regret it?

On one hand I will save money but on other hand, I could also feel insecure. Personally, I am a very honest person and I would not stay in the aprtment for a single day if I do not have money to pay the rent. I have never met my landlord - He seems hinest too except he cries for every cent ( extremely miserly).

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Hoping to get genuine advise from my friends/co-senior expats here.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jantango]

I was in the same situation 14 years ago. I signed a rental contract with an escribano for a two-year term with guarantee. I continued to rent the apartment without a contract because the owner was confident I would pay the rent on time each month, and I did. There was no agent commission.

 

[ben]

Not sure that Don't think I qualify for the 'senior' moniker, but here goes anyways.

1) Nobody knows the future. Could something go wrong? Yes.
I have done deals here with a handshake, but only when I know fairly-to-very well the people involved.

2) OTOH, in general the law favors tenants here much more than landlords, so in truth he's the one who is taking the far bigger gamble than you are.
Any shred of comunication (emails for example) that shows you moved in with his permission establishes you absolutely as a tenant, with all rights associated thereby, and sans garantia to boot.

Assuming you're paying monthly (not 6 months upfront), what exactly can he possibly do?
Not do some necessary repair? - the rent is on your side.

3) If you have some history of disagreeing re expenses, perhaps you can signal your intentions clearly in this regard.
"Just to be clear, I want to be assured that any necessary repairs may be deducted from the rent. I can assure you that I will always document such expenses and will not abuse this provision".
Otherwise, it appears all the risk is on his side, not yours.

 

[Rich One]

Without knowing the agreement bet your landlord and the Real Estate company in terms of termination of services, and the legal terms for a lease originated by a Real Estate company and renewal of said lease. Your landlord may face legal actions if there is a cause for legal action.

I would proceed to negotiate directly with the landlord, after consulting with my legal counsel for potential liabilities

 

[mc kenna]

I would start by saying,'' if it ain't broke, why fix it'', meaning that if you had no problems in the past with a contract, why would you risk doing something different?, let's not forget that contracts are meant to protect both parties,everything is laid out in black and white.
Things to consider would be, you don't know this owner and things might change in his life where he might need his property back for what ever reason,(with a contract you are protected), you might have issues with the property, as in infractucture or might want or need to remodel or change the lay out of the property to suit your needs better ( he is protected by said contract), payment terms , conditions and dates,( both are protected by the agreement in the contract) no contract could mean he can jack up your rent at will and a hand shake won't prevent that from happening, a contract will, i can go on and on but these are just a couple of examples, but i do understand how tempting it is to ''save'' money now when you renew, wich in reality you are there by the grace of god and the goodwill of the owner leaving yourself open to whatever might come up and he would be exposed to not getting paid(no written compromise to pay, no need to pay) , i would stick with the contract........Honor, respect and honesty are all great qualities to have, but you need to take into account that contracts have been around for a long time for a reason........best of luck to you

 

[Ceviche]

Thanks all of you. Some great and diverse point of view.

I would also welcome some information as to how much exactly I would have to pay the real estate agent should I extend via her? What is the exact law in regard to this. Last time she had charged me 1.5 times the rent.

 

[ben]

All in all, mckenna is right about contracts existing for a reason. However, from ceviche's POV and knowing the reality of the real estate situation here, in the event of a falling out the owner would have a lot more to lose than the tenant.

Mckenna's points are great examples of my point:
(again - DO NOT act on my advise without checking this with someone who knows more than I do. When it comes to travel I basically know my shit, here I'm just spitballing. END DISCLMAIMER.)

1) change the layout of the property - it is my understanding that as a de facto tenant, without a contract, the tenant can legally preclude the owner from doing a lot of things. From that angle the contract is simply unnecessary.

2) owner jacks up prices - and ceviche stops paying altogether. You bring your lawyers, I bring mine. Anybody the owner then consults (short of armed thugs) will advise him that it'll take a good couple of years until he sees the inside of his apartment again, and ceviche won't have paid a cent. And he'll have to pray that the place isn't trashed (remember homeinbuenosaires's saga?)

And you think a miser who wants to save a couple thousand bucks in legal fees is going to start dishing out for legal representation? And I also doubt the AFIP is seeing a big share of the rent. No, if the guy has any brains he will then accept whatever deal ceviche offers - assuming he will have been stupid enough to start this standoff in the first place.

No, it's the owner who either has a rock solid basis to trust ceviche, and/or is a bloody fool. There may well be scenarios I haven't envisioned - see disclaimer above - but I really think ceviche has little to fear here.

 

[Ceviche]

Actually i re-read his email, he sent me today!

The f*7ker wants me to pay both the commissions if I want to do the legal contract!

Please do NOT contact Real estate agents, except if you want to pay all commissions including the one I paid last time to them again. Please just continue to pay as before since we both confirmed by email.

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Comments???

 

[sergio]

I think you are lucky to have an apartment that you apparently like without having a garantia. Your landlord, though you call him a " [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]f*7ker" seems perfectly reasonable to me. He trusts you to pay the rent every month and he understandably doesn't want to pay a real estate agent to renew the lease, If you insist on using a real estate agent to make you feel secure, he asks you to pay. I assume if you don't agree then he can tell you those are the terms and if you don't like it, leave when the lease ends. [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]As someone else said, it is true that without a written lease he could ask you to leave before two years are up. That probably won't happen but it could. I would accept the rental on those terms. If the owner did not want me to stay, I would not want to fight him nor would I want to use local laws to delay my departure or to punish him for wanting the apartment back. [/background]

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]It is all a matter of mutual respect and consideration. You are there without a garantia which is a great disadvantage to the owner. You may not know anyone who is willing to take on the huge responsibility of being your garantia. If I were you I'd accept the month-to-month terms and hope for the best. If the owner wants you to leave before two years are up he is probably going to give you sufficient notice to find another place. [/background]

 

[nikad]

I think he is actually putting himself in danger: ie no guarantee, no huge deposits, if you decide to live and die there and stop paying you could. This being said, nothing prevents both of you from adding a " prorroga" ( extension ) to your current lease. I have to research it, but I think no commissions are charged from realtors on prorrogas and you would be both covered. You could even do it privately, no need to get lawyers, realtors, etc. Just write the short legend and you both sign it. Even if you don't do any of this, I can't think of anything that could go wrong, except for the fact that if he sells the property, there is no contract to honor ( when a lease is still current and the property is sold, the lease must be honored by the new owner ).