Six Months After: Ba Vs. Madrid
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citygirl
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Really? I've met plenty like that. The racist comments are frequent here and bringing in "ethnic" food can certainly get you some raised eyebrows and comments. As far as sexism, well, there is more than enough of that. Not everyone is like that but there are plenty of people here who are.
As for the inviting and not showing up - my only advice is that a non-commital yes is really a no so it's important to understand that. It's also very important to understand that if someone gets a better offer, there is no shame in not coming. And most importantly - people don't make plans in advance and if you try, there's a huge chance they won't show up even if they said yes b/c of all the above - they forget, something else came up, etc. Took me a LONG time to understand the rules. Call the day of, an hour or two before you want to do something (preferably around 22:00/23:00 if you're looking to go out for a drink). If they say yes, they will show up (if not, write them off b/c that's incredibly rude and not typical).
robwerwe[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]
"Sometimes this place seems a little bit soulless. Lots of people yes but not that much to do."
[/background]
I don't how long you've been here, but I don't think anyone who truly knows this city could describe it as soulless. Not meaning to be rude, but that adjective falls very far from the tree.
Chicaargentina
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You have been meeting the wrong people, i dont know what else to say. Those things never happened to me.
Chicaargentina
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Its just bad luck. I ve been stopped many times in the streets by froeingers and helped them in english, showed them maps, share a few laughs, etc-
Chicaargentina
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Sometimes the foreingers are the ones that dont show up and are rude, could this be the case?
Ive met a couple of very nice americans (they were a couple), last winter and we had a lot of laughs in a party, exchange e mails, and start writing and exchanging messages, until this girl (the one i was exchanging messages to) didnt show up when i invited her to a reunion in my house and stopped talking to me altogether.
Ive met a couple of very nice americans (they were a couple), last winter and we had a lot of laughs in a party, exchange e mails, and start writing and exchanging messages, until this girl (the one i was exchanging messages to) didnt show up when i invited her to a reunion in my house and stopped talking to me altogether.
DontMindMe
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Hi guys, this is Don'tMindMe. Long time no post. I don't know if it was the site remodel or what, but even though I still get e-mail updates under my old account, I can't sign in even if I try to change the password. (Any admins floating around who want to help me with that? I sent an inquiry and since I'll be back in BA soon I'd like to use my old account.) Anyway, I've been in Madrid since the beginning of September having previously spent two years in Buenos Aires working and making a crappy peso salary (which got me practically a full ride to grad school, so there's that). Here's my experience, following starlucia's format. Keep in mind, this is from the perspective of a student.
Salary vs cost of living. I know experienced English teachers (if that's what you're into) who charge 30 euros/hour for private classes. Meanwhile, a glass of house wine at a bar in Chueca (sort of like Palermo in that it's trendy and expensive, but gayer and without that trying-so-hard vibe) runs you 2 euros in a lot of places. In my neighborhood, Lavapiés, it would be 1 or less. Let me grab a receipt from Carrefour and share a few random items with you (prices in euros)...
1,5 liters Coca Zero: 1
small bottle of tabasco sauce: 2,45
picada vacuno 400 gr: 3,25
0,5 liter water bottle: 0,53
1,5 liter asturiana leche semi desnatada: 1,28 (this is a nice brand; if you want milk for less than a euro carrefour discount brand is the way to go)
4 pack of Carrefour brand greek yogurts, no sugar added: 0,88
I couldn't afford to shop at Carrefour or buy things like water bottles in BA. Here, I can. My rent is 400 euros/month for a room in a shared apartment, fully furnished down to the art on the walls and the laundry basket. I have a Juliette balcony, great view, super high ceilings a I'm a block and a half from the metro. All included. I say "room," but it's more like a large bedroom plus my own private living room, separated by a curtain. Still, you can find much cheaper.
Security. It's hard for me to even explain what a joy it is to be able to walk through packed, vibrant streets at 2 a.m. for 30 minutes if I feel like it to get home, and not have to worry other than taking typical precautions. In my first apartment, my roomate locked the deadbolt and our landlord made fun of her for being paranoid. Where I live now, the mail carrier buzzes whoever's home, and that person buzzes him or her in. Because yeah, you can buzz visitors in here. It took me a month before I caught on to that. I kept going downstairs... I actually experienced some (officially diagnosed) post traumatic stress after leaving BA. It took me months to feel normal at home, then I had a setback here in Madrid due to the change of location, and now? I will never take safety for granted again. I am grateful every day.
Ease of travel. So easy. So cheap. So CLOSE! Spain is magnificent to travel around. My parents are history buffs and had the time of their lives here visiting Madrid and traveling around Andalucía with me. And then you're just a short plane ride to the rest of Europe, Morocco, oh man...I need more time!
General first-world efficiency. Everything she said, except for the banks. That was sort of an Argentine experience for me, but every expat and Spaniard alike was so shocked by my story I really don't think it's the norm. But hey, all I had to do as a foreigner was do an extremely simple trámite and I got a NIE and now have a checking account.
Food. Spanish food, when well done, can be pretty good. It has more flavor than Argentine food, but isn't spicy at all. Spaniards don't like spice either. It's not the healthiest so I haven't gotten sick of it because I don't eat it much. They have lots of fusion-y expensive tapas now too, which can be fun. My neighborhood, Lavapiés, has incredible Senegalese, Peruvian, Chinese, middle eastern...Hell, actual Italians run my neighborhood pizza place. Okay, I'll stop torturing you. Except that tonight I think I'm going to get some arroz con pescado from my favorite Senegalese place. Seven euros and the portion they send you home with is big enough for two to have a full meal. The only thing I miss from home is Mexican food. I don't know where starlucia lives, but me and everyone I know get our vegetables at fruterías, usually run by immigrants from Bangladesh. They're all over residential areas, though certainly not business districs. I go to the grocery store if I need something like limes that may not be available down the block. What else...peanut butter and all that stuff is easy to find, if you really want it. Dried fruits and nuts everywhere.
The people. I left Buenos Aires and don't have one porteño/a friend I can truly call my own. This seemed to be a pretty typical experience for those of us without Argentine partners. Some expats with expat partners/kids seem to make friends with other families. But if you're in your 20s in Buenos Aires and your boyfriend is from one of those *other* Latin American countries, it's brutal. (He made one porteño friend in five years.) To me, madrileños are a delight. I love them. They are friendly, warm, open, educated and polite. They care about their fellow citizens. When the metro is too full, no one pushes. People smile in the streets and read, a lot. Books are everywhere. My neighbors smile at me. I had a friend, a real friend, within a month. My grad school classmates have made friends at the gym, playing soccer, etc, even though we leave in May! Even though foreigners are nothing special here! I wasn't even going to try, knowing that I was leaving. But madrileños are still down to hang. Don't get me wrong, their friends from their whole life and their families will take priority. But it's not like pulling teeth the way it is in Buenos Aires. There's no collective paranoia that every stranger out there is someone who could potentially screw you over. Leave the city and friendliness increases a hundredfold. You won't even believe it. I haven't heard one Spaniard whine about the crisis. Discussions, yes, but no bitching and moaning. Cons: There is racism and xenophobia, but it's easy to find people who don't think that way.
The energy. Again, I don't know where starlucia is living because my neighborhood papelería is barely closing at 9 p.m. I love the energy here. People seem to eat and go out on the same schedule as porteños, pretty much. (My gym offeres 9 p.m. spinning). Streets in the nightlife districts are packed at night, people walking around, laughing. Life is in the street! You can meet people while out and be friendly. My professors say they've never seen the city this sad, but to me it feels like a happy place. Buenos Aires has that frenetic, lawless, uncontainable feel to it, which admittedly can be exciting. But I'm not fresh out of college, so the appeal of being able to get into trouble but not get in trouble for it is waning. And anyway, there is plenty mischief to be had...
Cafes. There are old-school cafés where you drink it at the bar and talk to your co-worker, and there are trendier, new cafés where you can buy a wrap, sit down and use the wi-fi.
Ice cream. I guess you can count me among the people who don't care about ice cream. I've seen some gelatto places, though.
Drinking in moderation. I very much respect the Spanish approach to drinking. I don't drink during the week, but I respect whoever can drink a beer with lunch and go back to work without the urge to order another round. Again, people live their lives out in the street here, not behind closed doors. So yeah, that means popping down to the block's taberna to have a beer with your neighbor on Sunday at noon. I think that's great. It's not like they're wasted and puking in the streets!
Weather: Okay, I'm adding one. I hate the cold but it's really not that bad here this year. Today the high was something like 56 F. I don't know if the high has even dropped below 45 F since I've been here. It's the end of January and I thought it would be much worse. Haven't experienced the heat of the summer yet, but the climate is quite dry so I doubt it's that awful.
Being a woman: Adding another one. Madrid wins, hands down. I got harrassed on a near daily basis in Buenos Aires, groped more times than I care to remember, hit on while undergoing medical exams during which I was topless, by the emergency room doctor, you name it. Part of my post traumatic stress came from all of that, actually. Men here tend to be pretty chivalrous, but they don't seem to feel like they're owed your time, attention, smile or more for being that way. I'm not single so I can't comment on the dating scene, but I will say that if a guy hits on me and I explain that I have a boyfriend, he doesn't tend to get angry and throw a tantrum or call me a "puta" just for saying I'm not interested. He'll probably ask me about him, talk for me a while longer to see if I'm serious, then say "much gusto" and walk away. Spanish men look on the street, but they don't touch and they usually don't say anything. It cannot be understated how much this adds to my general quality of life. I do not miss the sense of dread I would have in BA putting on my shoes to go to the grocery store. (Color-wise I blend in with Spaniards and Argentines, in case you're wondering. I hate to imagine what the super blonde women deal with.)
So do I miss anything about BA? It took me about a year to feel this way, but sure, sometimes. It's beautiful. It's exciting. It's unpredictable. Mi querido San Telmo. Peruvian food in Abasto with my boyfriend, walking by the closed mannequin shops. Jacaranda trees in the spring. Those amazing views. And yes, asados. So I'm going to finish grad school there, but then I'm gone for good. But Madrid, oh, Madrid. I wish I'd known it when times were good. I love it here and will be sad to leave. Honestly, if the economy were different, I'd try to convince my boyfriend to move here. I could see myself living, having kids, growing old and dying in a place like this. It's spectacular.
Salary vs cost of living. I know experienced English teachers (if that's what you're into) who charge 30 euros/hour for private classes. Meanwhile, a glass of house wine at a bar in Chueca (sort of like Palermo in that it's trendy and expensive, but gayer and without that trying-so-hard vibe) runs you 2 euros in a lot of places. In my neighborhood, Lavapiés, it would be 1 or less. Let me grab a receipt from Carrefour and share a few random items with you (prices in euros)...
1,5 liters Coca Zero: 1
small bottle of tabasco sauce: 2,45
picada vacuno 400 gr: 3,25
0,5 liter water bottle: 0,53
1,5 liter asturiana leche semi desnatada: 1,28 (this is a nice brand; if you want milk for less than a euro carrefour discount brand is the way to go)
4 pack of Carrefour brand greek yogurts, no sugar added: 0,88
I couldn't afford to shop at Carrefour or buy things like water bottles in BA. Here, I can. My rent is 400 euros/month for a room in a shared apartment, fully furnished down to the art on the walls and the laundry basket. I have a Juliette balcony, great view, super high ceilings a I'm a block and a half from the metro. All included. I say "room," but it's more like a large bedroom plus my own private living room, separated by a curtain. Still, you can find much cheaper.
Security. It's hard for me to even explain what a joy it is to be able to walk through packed, vibrant streets at 2 a.m. for 30 minutes if I feel like it to get home, and not have to worry other than taking typical precautions. In my first apartment, my roomate locked the deadbolt and our landlord made fun of her for being paranoid. Where I live now, the mail carrier buzzes whoever's home, and that person buzzes him or her in. Because yeah, you can buzz visitors in here. It took me a month before I caught on to that. I kept going downstairs... I actually experienced some (officially diagnosed) post traumatic stress after leaving BA. It took me months to feel normal at home, then I had a setback here in Madrid due to the change of location, and now? I will never take safety for granted again. I am grateful every day.
Ease of travel. So easy. So cheap. So CLOSE! Spain is magnificent to travel around. My parents are history buffs and had the time of their lives here visiting Madrid and traveling around Andalucía with me. And then you're just a short plane ride to the rest of Europe, Morocco, oh man...I need more time!
General first-world efficiency. Everything she said, except for the banks. That was sort of an Argentine experience for me, but every expat and Spaniard alike was so shocked by my story I really don't think it's the norm. But hey, all I had to do as a foreigner was do an extremely simple trámite and I got a NIE and now have a checking account.
Food. Spanish food, when well done, can be pretty good. It has more flavor than Argentine food, but isn't spicy at all. Spaniards don't like spice either. It's not the healthiest so I haven't gotten sick of it because I don't eat it much. They have lots of fusion-y expensive tapas now too, which can be fun. My neighborhood, Lavapiés, has incredible Senegalese, Peruvian, Chinese, middle eastern...Hell, actual Italians run my neighborhood pizza place. Okay, I'll stop torturing you. Except that tonight I think I'm going to get some arroz con pescado from my favorite Senegalese place. Seven euros and the portion they send you home with is big enough for two to have a full meal. The only thing I miss from home is Mexican food. I don't know where starlucia lives, but me and everyone I know get our vegetables at fruterías, usually run by immigrants from Bangladesh. They're all over residential areas, though certainly not business districs. I go to the grocery store if I need something like limes that may not be available down the block. What else...peanut butter and all that stuff is easy to find, if you really want it. Dried fruits and nuts everywhere.
The people. I left Buenos Aires and don't have one porteño/a friend I can truly call my own. This seemed to be a pretty typical experience for those of us without Argentine partners. Some expats with expat partners/kids seem to make friends with other families. But if you're in your 20s in Buenos Aires and your boyfriend is from one of those *other* Latin American countries, it's brutal. (He made one porteño friend in five years.) To me, madrileños are a delight. I love them. They are friendly, warm, open, educated and polite. They care about their fellow citizens. When the metro is too full, no one pushes. People smile in the streets and read, a lot. Books are everywhere. My neighbors smile at me. I had a friend, a real friend, within a month. My grad school classmates have made friends at the gym, playing soccer, etc, even though we leave in May! Even though foreigners are nothing special here! I wasn't even going to try, knowing that I was leaving. But madrileños are still down to hang. Don't get me wrong, their friends from their whole life and their families will take priority. But it's not like pulling teeth the way it is in Buenos Aires. There's no collective paranoia that every stranger out there is someone who could potentially screw you over. Leave the city and friendliness increases a hundredfold. You won't even believe it. I haven't heard one Spaniard whine about the crisis. Discussions, yes, but no bitching and moaning. Cons: There is racism and xenophobia, but it's easy to find people who don't think that way.
The energy. Again, I don't know where starlucia is living because my neighborhood papelería is barely closing at 9 p.m. I love the energy here. People seem to eat and go out on the same schedule as porteños, pretty much. (My gym offeres 9 p.m. spinning). Streets in the nightlife districts are packed at night, people walking around, laughing. Life is in the street! You can meet people while out and be friendly. My professors say they've never seen the city this sad, but to me it feels like a happy place. Buenos Aires has that frenetic, lawless, uncontainable feel to it, which admittedly can be exciting. But I'm not fresh out of college, so the appeal of being able to get into trouble but not get in trouble for it is waning. And anyway, there is plenty mischief to be had...
Cafes. There are old-school cafés where you drink it at the bar and talk to your co-worker, and there are trendier, new cafés where you can buy a wrap, sit down and use the wi-fi.
Ice cream. I guess you can count me among the people who don't care about ice cream. I've seen some gelatto places, though.
Drinking in moderation. I very much respect the Spanish approach to drinking. I don't drink during the week, but I respect whoever can drink a beer with lunch and go back to work without the urge to order another round. Again, people live their lives out in the street here, not behind closed doors. So yeah, that means popping down to the block's taberna to have a beer with your neighbor on Sunday at noon. I think that's great. It's not like they're wasted and puking in the streets!
Weather: Okay, I'm adding one. I hate the cold but it's really not that bad here this year. Today the high was something like 56 F. I don't know if the high has even dropped below 45 F since I've been here. It's the end of January and I thought it would be much worse. Haven't experienced the heat of the summer yet, but the climate is quite dry so I doubt it's that awful.
Being a woman: Adding another one. Madrid wins, hands down. I got harrassed on a near daily basis in Buenos Aires, groped more times than I care to remember, hit on while undergoing medical exams during which I was topless, by the emergency room doctor, you name it. Part of my post traumatic stress came from all of that, actually. Men here tend to be pretty chivalrous, but they don't seem to feel like they're owed your time, attention, smile or more for being that way. I'm not single so I can't comment on the dating scene, but I will say that if a guy hits on me and I explain that I have a boyfriend, he doesn't tend to get angry and throw a tantrum or call me a "puta" just for saying I'm not interested. He'll probably ask me about him, talk for me a while longer to see if I'm serious, then say "much gusto" and walk away. Spanish men look on the street, but they don't touch and they usually don't say anything. It cannot be understated how much this adds to my general quality of life. I do not miss the sense of dread I would have in BA putting on my shoes to go to the grocery store. (Color-wise I blend in with Spaniards and Argentines, in case you're wondering. I hate to imagine what the super blonde women deal with.)
So do I miss anything about BA? It took me about a year to feel this way, but sure, sometimes. It's beautiful. It's exciting. It's unpredictable. Mi querido San Telmo. Peruvian food in Abasto with my boyfriend, walking by the closed mannequin shops. Jacaranda trees in the spring. Those amazing views. And yes, asados. So I'm going to finish grad school there, but then I'm gone for good. But Madrid, oh, Madrid. I wish I'd known it when times were good. I love it here and will be sad to leave. Honestly, if the economy were different, I'd try to convince my boyfriend to move here. I could see myself living, having kids, growing old and dying in a place like this. It's spectacular.
toongeorges
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So 6 more months to go to be able to compare summer in Madrid with summer in BA. Madrid has about the hottest summer in Europe.
glasgowjohn
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But the hot summers in Madrid are dry - very low humidity and you can get through them fairly well
And then there are the TERRAZAS DE VERANO , which add a little sparkle to summer nights
