Six Months After: Ba Vs. Madrid

[Vagrant Violet]

... I wouldn't say this is a totally unrecognizable time -- this is just another ride round the merry-go-round for Argentines -- they know exactly what's in store. As for the Spaniards, well they too have had their share of terrible economic times.

I have to say I enjoy your posts though because it is nice to see someone that is not so jaded as myself about life here. I'm rolling into my 8th year, I like it here, but I also never had intention of leaving -- until recently. That changed 18 mos ago when we had our baby. Now I just don't see how it will work for us to stay. My mum is 76, she's been here 3x and will not make the trip again. Flying home with baby is more and more difficult, and this year when we have to start paying full price for a seat, we're going to be looking at about 5k USD for a family trip home. If we ever have another kid and we want to do a family trip home, that's going to be 6-8k in tickets alone. With the peso slipping constantly against the dollar, trips home to family become more and more of a fantasy.

I also was here because I chose to be here, loved to say that too. And I had disposable income at one point to be able to fly home when I wanted (that's pretty much gone now). Now I have a child, what am I going to do? Abandon him? Take him and abandon husband? Of course not. So yes I guess technically I'm here out of choice, but it's not like the other choice, the choice to leave is as easy as stepping on a plane.

You say you are here out of choice, but a lot of this perspective is going to change when your child arrives. When you start to look at daycares at schools and see the conditions of things here versus at home. You can bring in all your imported toys and onesies, but you can't rebuild a daycare to make it look like one at home. Public education really isn't much of a choice here, so starting as early as your child's 2nd year you have to budget in the cost of that as well (we are currently spending 2000 pesos a month for daycare to give an idea).

If you own an apartment already, then you are in a much better position than us. But for us, it's become extremely complicated. we don't own, we're in 2 ambientes with an 18mos old, we need to move in March and our rent will easily double adding on another room, plus the daycare, plus matricula for a new daycare if we move out of the neighbourhood, plus commissions, depositos, fletes etc -- the month we move we will easily have over 18,000 pesos in costs.

A lot of the choices that one makes for oneself become ridiculous in the face of raising a child. Were it up to me, I'd probably be on a plane tomorrow just so that I could get my family a better life. Unfortunately once one has a partner and a child these are not decisions to be made alone. So I'm stuck waiting for my husband to finally agree that it is no longer financially feasible for us to stay here in the long term.

Fair enough. Who's to say, really? Hence the reason that I chose to preface that I am speaking only for myself considering my persona circumstances. In any case, the most important thing is that, in the end, my husband and I can choose to take stock of the current situation, whatever it might be, and go from there. Life is unpredictable and impermanent, but not just here. But options are never to be taken for granted.

Another factor to consider (with all due respect, before anyone else goes jumping all over me, or so it honestly felt, for wearing rose colored glasses without considering how my life is going to totally change after I have my son), is a key reason why I left the US. I didn't come here directly, I actually resided in Seoul, South Korea. In a way, I was among the economic refugees: A recent college graduate (with a BA and Masters of Arts in Edu degree) who spent more than year waking up with no purpose other than to check every single job website, send out my CVs, and play the waiting game. By the way, I never won the waiting game in the end. Did I mention that I (or at least my parents) had to start paying back my college debt of over US$70,000 with the intention of being a teacher? Yeah, it was a bummer.

Right after I graduated, I was on top of the world, until it turned out soon after that I was living a life that had no dignity or purpose (I even applied to be a cashier at TJ Maxx and was understandably rejected for being overqualified... Don't think I had enough pride to hold out for anything, I just wanted to work, to do something!).

I was (and still am) considerably physically healthy, but had no employment, therefore no form of insurance whatsoever. One unsuspecting night my pet cat was startled and scratched me a freaking millimeter under my eyeball, just under my eyelash line. I looked like a nightmare, bleeding from my thin eyelid, and had no idea of the extent of the damage. That was scary enough.

What was worse? I couldn't drive myself to a hospital while bleeding from one of my eyes, and just calling an ambulance with no insurance and no job was not an option. To sit in the emergency room would be another cost. I would have had to see an eye specialist of some sort, and God forbid I would have needed stitches or any form of treatment, or I'd be even further in the financial hole and would never, ever get out.

Having a child changes you in ways that I cannot even comprehend now, because I'm still not a mother yet. But to know that I have been given the access to all the possibilities for a healthy pregnancy and a safe delivery is at least a huge part of his future well being, or no? He´ll need vaccinations, check ups, and since I can't rightfully keep him in a bubble, I´m sure that at least a few trips to the emergency room are in store for me.

But you know what? Despite the obvious expenses just to have a kid (clothes, education, toys, food, to name a few), at least I know that even if I can't get him the best products as easily, and that having a double income home is no guarantee for any child's future, I feel that my chances here are far greater that I won't ever have to choose between availing of medical care, no matter how complicated and no matter how serious it could be, even for a healthy baby, than have to even hesitate or wonder what other important expense will have to be sacrificed. For me, that's a reality for many people (not just in the US), and that is a horrific possibility for ANY parent to have to contemplate.

I've got my options (legal, financial, and otherwise) and I have my health and my son's, and even if I lose my job and have to depend on public health care, I have the opportunity to keep him that way, come what may. The entire world is the jungle with no rules, let's not oversimplify. There's an incredible and unjustifiable amount of crime and violence here, but even back in Ohio, it´s happened (and yes, to real people with whom I was acquainted). And it can happen again at any time.

WIth all due respect but being honest, I feel like you're trying to give me a wake up call to a reality that I am already aware of. Kids cost money, everything can turn upside down in less than a day, family is important (parents, kids, spouses), and putting your family in danger is no joke. That just rubs me the wrong way, and I'm letting you know, full stop.

So let us all keep an open mind and see if I am still posting on this forum a year from now and what the story will be, shall we? Nobody knows (not even you and not even me) what may happen. I´m not going to be Pollyanna if I start witnessing a military coup or something equally serious. Even rats have the instinct to bail from a sinking ship. Never say never, but telling me the cost of basic childcare or education here? You do know that I am a teacher here, right (not a "TEFL Cert." backpacker, the real deal, even back home)? For the craptastic schools where I originally started out with here in the beginning and their absurd tuition? Not cool.

 

[starlucia]

I love spain, although I would choose Barcelona- but I am amazed at how low your food costs are- in fact, all your costs, compared to the USA.
I spend at least $100 a week in the US, for my wife and I, for groceries, and we grow probably a quarter of what we eat. 40 euros a month in the USA is far less than you get in Food Stamps, which is currently about $275 euros for 2 people per month.
and ten or 20 euros a month for social drinks? thats about two drinks in most US bars. or five coffees.
I take my son to the crappiest US sandwich chain, and a sandwich and a drink is easily 8 euros.
I could not eat on ten times what you spend in the USA. Unless all I ate was rice and macaroni.

Same with rent- I have 2 kids in college in the US right now, and each pays around $500 US/ 425 Euros, plus another 75 Euros for internet, electricity, and cable tv, per month, to share with 3-5 other kids in a house or apartment, unfurnished.
The smallest tiny apartments in Seattle are more- to live alone there, its about $800 US/ month.
Compared to that, Madrid is dirt cheap-
Sounds like you pay about half what my student children pay per month, and one lives in the far suburbs, the other in a small college town. If they lived in the center of Seattle, it would be a third more. In LA, or San Francisco, double. NYC, probably at least triple.

Every time I have been to europe in the last twenty years, it has been significantly MORE expensive than the US, but what you are describing is it costing you 1/3 or so what it costs to live in the US.

Well, I think it's hard to generalize the whole of Europe as either cheap or expensive. In my experience, the UK, Zurich, Paris, Dublin, and San Sebastian are expensive, but Madrid is definitely cheaper than many parts of the U.S. (and Berlin and Lisbon are both half the price of Madrid.) Nobody I know would pay more than 350 euros per month for a furnished room (anything higher is "guiri rent"), or more than 700-800 for an entire 2-bedroom apt. My Spanish friends actually complain about how expensive Madrid has gotten, because prices rose by 50% when they joined the euro, but the items that I buy cost less here than they do at the Publix in Winter Park, FL. A kilo of plain yogurt is €1.00, 200 grams of Emmenthal €1.50, a baguette €0.40, a 3-pack of canned tuna €1.70, a glass jar of cinnamon €0.49, a liter of extra-virgin olive oil €2.50. Actually, right now for dinner I'm eating some wild salmon (€7.70/kilo), carrots (€0.65/kilo), and peas (€1.19/kilo), and will be having some oranges (€1.50 for a 2-kilo bag) for dessert
As far as the cost of going out... again, it depends on your lifestyle. You can have dinner for either €10 or €40. A cana is €1.50 and a glass of wine €2, but a mojito is at least €5. Many restaurants have a €10 menu del dia (2 courses, dessert, bread, wine, water), but there are also overpriced places charging €11 for a salad. A lot of places have weekly specials, where all drinks and pintxos cost €1 each, so you can get drunk and full for around €8. Personally, I'm so sick of Spanish bar food I could scream, so my only "going out" expenses are 1-2 glasses of wine, once or twice per week.

 

[Chicaargentina]

So 6 more months to go to be able to compare summer in Madrid with summer in BA. Madrid has about the hottest summer in Europe.

are Madrid summers hotter than BA?
ugh thats bad!
are they as long?

 

[Chicaargentina]

Wow, that is rude.
All I can say as a member of her majesty's Kingdom of Great Britain, I here by apologise for the USA.

Maybe you should meet me and change your opinion about argentinian people. Im nice as almost every non-porteño person

 

[Yogur griego]

I suppose I should be writing a very long response to this excellent first post, because I too am living in Madrid at the moment. However, I will probably return to BA somewhere this year. I basically agree with most of your views, so I am not sure whether I have enough interesting stuff to add, but anyway, let's try.

Every time I am trying to withdraw money at an ATM I am pretty much first scanning the whole environment rather nervously and often also specifically looking for a machine inside a building, but I never find them. I must say that I feel more safe withdrawing money in a closed environment in Buenos Aires then here on the streets, but I have probably become just way too paranoid by living in South America. I must say that apart from the wrong street at a wrong time in La Boca I have never encountered any risky situations myself, I fear motochorros as much as you guys but I have never seen one of them, and I have walked endless and endless miles through the streets of Buenos Aires, sometimes even a couple of mindless adventures in Barracas and Nueva Pompeya.

That brings me to my point. Perhaps this gets a bit too personal but I sometimes just cannot resist tears of nostalgia, Buenos Aires has gradually become my fatherland in a way, and I am having big difficulties adapting my soul to different cities in this world. I deliberately moved to Madrid because it resembles Bs As quite a lot in some ways, but apart from enjoying walking around the Gran Via every day I just have to conclude that I find Madrid so empty, so lacking in character. I cannot say that I really particularly like Spaniards (In Buenos Aires I have interesting conversations all the time with practically everyone I meet), and I think the accent is terrible, but hell, I can live with that. However, Buenos Aires finds itself stuck inside my heart and probably especially because of my love for el tango, over the months I feel a gradual increase in melancholy and desire to return to the city that likes to make me struggle with many different problems but offers me the only place in the world where I feel 'alive' at a maximal level.

It hurts. I do not know if I should be longing to go back to Fair Winds that much but that place is where my life has simply been most enjoyable until now. I miss it...

 

[Silvie]

Very interesting post. Thanks for sharing your comparison.

 

[sesamosinsal]

However, Buenos Aires finds itself stuck inside my heart and probably especially because of my love for el tango, over the months I feel a gradual increase in melancholy and desire to return to the city that likes to make me struggle with many different problems but offers me the only place in the world where I feel 'alive' at a maximal level.

That's exactly how I feel.

 

[Dipoots]

I also was here because I chose to be here, loved to say that too. And I had disposable income at one point to be able to fly home when I wanted (that's pretty much gone now). Now I have a child, what am I going to do? Abandon him? Take him and abandon husband? Of course not. So yes I guess technically I'm here out of choice, but it's not like the other choice, the choice to leave is as easy as stepping on a plane.
.......
A lot of the choices that one makes for oneself become ridiculous in the face of raising a child. Were it up to me, I'd probably be on a plane tomorrow just so that I could get my family a better life. Unfortunately once one has a partner and a child these are not decisions to be made alone. So I'm stuck waiting for my husband to finally agree that it is no longer financially feasible for us to stay here in the long term.

Thanks for your post. I was wondering about my Argy colleagues with kids how and if they see a future for their kids, how to save for their kids education and so on.... I am not close enough to ask them these questions. But I guess most are just resigned to living day by day and month by month. Such complacency, no, resignation, is dangerous....

I can empathize with you as a parent though I do not have the same situation as you. We started our kids education savings fund soon after our kids were borne in our home country, and if everything goes as planned, each kid will more than enough money for university or start a small business in 10-15 years time (back home). Hope you make the right decision.

 

[glasgowjohn]

are Madrid summers hotter than BA?
ugh thats bad!
are they as long?

Don't worry

Just as hot but a lot less humid , so you can actually walk down the street at 35C and stay dry !!

 

[glasgowjohn]

I suppose I should be writing a very long response to this excellent first post, because I too am living in Madrid at the moment. However, I will probably return to BA somewhere this year. I basically agree with most of your views, so I am not sure whether I have enough interesting stuff to add, but anyway, let's try.

Every time I am trying to withdraw money at an ATM I am pretty much first scanning the whole environment rather nervously and often also specifically looking for a machine inside a building, but I never find them. I must say that I feel more safe withdrawing money in a closed environment in Buenos Aires then here on the streets, but I have probably become just way too paranoid by living in South America. I must say that apart from the wrong street at a wrong time in La Boca I have never encountered any risky situations myself, I fear motochorros as much as you guys but I have never seen one of them, and I have walked endless and endless miles through the streets of Buenos Aires, sometimes even a couple of mindless adventures in Barracas and Nueva Pompeya.

That brings me to my point. Perhaps this gets a bit too personal but I sometimes just cannot resist tears of nostalgia, Buenos Aires has gradually become my fatherland in a way, and I am having big difficulties adapting my soul to different cities in this world. I deliberately moved to Madrid because it resembles Bs As quite a lot in some ways, but apart from enjoying walking around the Gran Via every day I just have to conclude that I find Madrid so empty, so lacking in character. I cannot say that I really particularly like Spaniards (In Buenos Aires I have interesting conversations all the time with practically everyone I meet), and I think the accent is terrible, but hell, I can live with that. However, Buenos Aires finds itself stuck inside my heart and probably especially because of my love for el tango, over the months I feel a gradual increase in melancholy and desire to return to the city that likes to make me struggle with many different problems but offers me the only place in the world where I feel 'alive' at a maximal level.

It hurts. I do not know if I should be longing to go back to Fair Winds that much but that place is where my life has simply been most enjoyable until now. I miss it...

I have seen motochorros in the south but not in MADRID.

They tend to go for old ladies handbags as opposed to people at ATMs