Soldiers who should face a firing squad before they die of natural causes

[ndcj]

Again, what about Mario Firmenich?

The fact that none of you has responded to that question suggests that none of you knows who he is, or what he did. Ever heard of Aramburu?

Yes, what about him? If you think he ought be retried for the murder or conspiracy to murder, or any other crimes, you're free to advocate that.

I fail to see what it has to do with prosecuting Videl et al. I'm sorry, but it's not in the same league.

During that whole period (starting before the golpe del estado), Argentina was basically engaged in a civil war. It was HORRIBLE, period.

But it's over now. Let it go. Seeking vengeance after 30 years doesn't help Argentina with its many problems of TODAY.

It's not vengeance, it's justice. Justice for those who were murdered, tortured, had their identities and families stolen from them. It's simply not for you to say "let it go".

The US right now is in a crisis state. Should the American people forget about the economy, the wars, the healthcare crisis, etc. and focus on prosecuting Cheny and Rumsfeld for human rights abuses? But that's not a good example because their crimes are still current --- flash forward 25 years years, imagine that the US has similar problems to those it has now, and then ask yourself whether the people (many of whom will have been born AFTER those two retired) should be focusing on solving the current problems or trying to get "justice" for the victims of waterboarding, etc.

I fail to see how the two interconnect. Prosecuting criminals has nothing to do with the operation of heathcare, the economy or whatever other bugbear you have.

Criminals are tried by judges in courts. That's their function. The judiciary isn't going to fix healthcare, the economy, export controls or whatever else you don't care for about the current government here or in the US. The two are unrelated, trying to tie them together is just cheap political opportunism.

 

[LAtoBA]

Focus on the current situation, don't dwell on the past. It's over.

Justice has no expiration. Rape, murder, abduction.....those are things one never truly "gets over". Our present is shaped by our past. As for Argentina's lost children....if you can tell them with a straight face to get over the fact they will never meet their biological mother or father, or that there may never be justice for their murders, I question your humanity.

Political posturing or not, justice is justice.

 

[Roxana]

There is a very old expression that says something like "when someone forgets his/her own history, it is most likely the facts that were part of the history will happen again".

(Cuando se olvida la historia, esta se repite nuevamente)

I believe that it is truly important do not forget, and try to be objective, as much as possible.

 

[mobri1130]

Dearest Random...you're ridiculous.

 

[John.St]

Again, what about Mario Firmenich?

Firmenich was the head of the Monteneros and Amburu became de facto dictator after the 'Revolución Libertadora' in which he had taken active part as a hardliner.

Amburu was killed in 1970 by the Monteneros, allegedly as revenge for the executions in the 'José León Suarez masacre' in 1956, following one of the usual coup attempts in Argentina.

What is your position?
That if not every single criminal is punished, then not one of them should be punished?

Or what?

 

[Amargo]

I also think that not judging the left-wing radicals and terrorists means forgetting the past and not have learned from the mistakes. Only one side is put to trial...it is just a matter of time until some right-wing party comes to power and starts judging ONLY the left-wing terrorists...starting over and over again.
If the government was really after justice, they should have judged ALL criminals, independently of their ideology.

 

[fedecc]

Justice has no expiration. Rape, murder, abduction.....those are things one never truly "gets over".

Actually, in argentina Justice has an expiration case, at least for left wing crimes. The dont get investigated because "prescribieron". So, if you are a military and you commited a crime you get trialed for human rights abuse, fine, but if you were a terrorist that killed inocent people (mind you in democratic times), you get to be a freaking socialist hero with monuments in your name, thats certainly not fine.

Whats ridiculous about these trials is that the same people are being trialled twice for the same crimes, just with a diferent "carátula". These two fellows are allready long convicted for life for stealing babies, on individual cases.

 

[French jurist]

There's a difference in-between the case-by-case assassination of adult civilians and the systematical elimination/torture/abduction of kids, women, elderly people, catholic nuns (Léonie Duquet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léonie_Duquet and Alice Domon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Domon), etc.

That's the difference between "ordinary" crimes and crimes against humanity.

In any case (e.g.) kids should be protected, it's a rule that does not oppose right/left or whatever but that opposes people with "humanity" and people without (even criminals apply this rule : see what happens in jails to people who sexually assaulted kids = other inmates, hopefully, tend not to be really nice against them).

Anyway, it's a very complex situation and, for instance, while Alfredo Astiz (the one who tortured the two nuns among many others) never was prosecuted (at least in Argentina) until 2003, Firmenich (montonero) remained in jail until the last days of 1990 (he was excluded from the amnesty decided in favor of both the junta's members & guerilleros).

Nevertheless, like always "History is written by the victorious" indeed.
At least Videla & co benefited from real legal protection (they were not tortured, mutilated, electrocuted, thrown away from a plane) = Videla has been living quietly in his flat on Cabildo (nearby the tunnel with Santa Fe) until recentely.

 

[John.St]

An unknown number of left wing terrorists, who should face trial, were killed during the military dictatorship. This is at least part of the seemingly unbalance between left and right.

 

[dr__dawggy]

There's a difference in-between the case-by-case assassination of adult civilians and the systematical elimination/torture/abduction of kids, women, elderly people, catholic nuns (Léonie Duquet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léonie_Duquet and Alice Domon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Domon), etc.

That's the difference between "ordinary" crimes and crimes against humanity.

In any case (e.g.) kids should be protected, it's a rule that does not oppose right/left or whatever but that opposes people with "humanity" and people without (even criminals apply this rule : see what happens in jails to people who sexually assaulted kids = other inmates, hopefully, tend not to be really nice against them).

Anyway, it's a very complex situation and, for instance, while Alfredo Astiz (the one who tortured the two nuns among many others) never was prosecuted (at least in Argentina) until 2003, Firmenich (montonero) remained in jail until the last days of 1990 (he was excluded from the amnesty decided in favor of both the junta's members & guerilleros).

Nevertheless, like always "History is written by the victorious" indeed.
At least Videla & co benefited from real legal protection (they were not tortured, mutilated, electrocuted, thrown away from a plane) = Videla has been living quietly in his flat on Cabildo (nearby the tunnel with Santa Fe) until recentely.

For the record, I support bringing right wing Militares who participated in kidnapping, rapes, torture and murder of innocents during what was surely a dark time in the history of Argentina.

This said, your post minimizes the actions of the Left before and during the reign of the Militares. The Montoneros and their leftist allies were engaged in a campaign of terror that created a climate of fear that enabled the dictators to come to power to restore order-kidnapping, bombing, executions were the order of the day...These too might be considered crimes against humanity rather than the more mundane "ordinary" crimes.

Surely the slaughter of innocents occurred by both those on the right and the left. The difference is perhaps that the right killed leftist terrorists and innocent civilians by the thousands while the Montoneros killed right wing government representatives and innocents by the hundreds.