Soldiers who should face a firing squad before they die of natural causes

[Amargo]

This is not Nicaragua, there wasn´t a war, it was a genocidal.

of course there was a war!! what was doing ERP (EJERCITO revolucionario del pueblo) in Tucumán then? or all the armed assaults against military units? They weren't boy-scouts!
The same for Montoneros.
And 30.000 guerrilleros wouldn't have changed much. The combat units of the Army were too strong for them back in those years.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

So, if you kill, torture, kidnap, rape someone but you are a young long hair college kid with some political participation is ok, it should not really be persecuted

As far as I know, extremist left political factions in this country used to kill and kidnap but raping, torturing women, men, pregnant women and hers unborn children was exclusive an standard practice of the militar and para-militar forces of the dictatorial government who were running concentration camps but, instead of burning the corps they used to drop them in the sea using militar airplanes.

.. after all they are only innocent well inteded kids (btw.. college kids ?????? take for example the E.R.P. (ejercito revolucionario del pueblo) i guess they were simply a college futbol team (there were several other "college futbol teams" roaming aroung doing the same type of business (avoing barber shops i guess)

These are common crimes under common laws. They were prosecuted, found guilty and they spent many years in jail. In fact, they attacked Tablada during the 90´, I can´t remember when exactly, they were prosecuted for this new crime and found guilty again.

C´mon !! these were highly trained guerrillleros !! these fubol teams even had different ranks (military style) and followed direct orders and followed them blindly... (these kinds of teams do not really accept the idea of free will and freedom of though/action).
Now, you either never heard of the ERP (and friends) which automtically disqualifies you of talking about the subject or even worse, you heard about them, you know what they did and how they performed their "duties" but choose to conveniantly leave them out the picture (god knows why) or , you believe they were simply long hair college dudes with some political views (and lots of ammo to go with it)

You have low knowledge of our history.
There was not a war, the military killed a few prisioners who were guerrilleros, there were just a few of them. But they killed many people who´s only crime was to be young or to disagree with them.

Remember, prisioners cannot be tortured, killed or raped....or you disagree with me?

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

of course there was a war!! what was doing ERP (EJERCITO revolucionario del pueblo) in Tucumán then? or all the armed assaults against military units? They weren't boy-scouts!
The same for Montoneros.
And 30.000 guerrilleros wouldn't have changed much. The combat units of the Army were too strong for them back in those years.

There is no debate about that those men you defend are criminals, in fact, they have been found guilty in the 80´s and recentry again. You like it or not.

However, as a criminal lawyer I know that criminals never admit their crimes and they always have an excuse or a weird interpretation of reality. If you want to missinform foreigners who have no idea of the Argentinian history, it is patetic, but it is the only thing you are able to do now. Lucky me we are not in the 70´s. Otherwise you could've kidnap me, rape my wife, torture me and her, and kill us because of our opinions, freedom of speach is called, later you say we were guerrilleros and you might feel inocent but you are still the worst kind of criminal on this earth.

Regards

 

[nativexpat]

These war criminals also deserve human rights... they have been detained for years without trial...

I understand that the descendants of desaparecidos have also been compensated monetarily...(fair enough) and that history books are being changed to present the military as evil, and terrorists as idealists.... (not so fair) and that the military sons of military men who where in service during those years are being denied a promotion, and that military schools are being downsized/denied funding... isn't that enough???

I am not siding with war criminals (I find those crimes despicable, no matter how brain-washed, blind or young those men were at the time) but the scales need to be tipped a little ....

Human rights FOR ALL

 

[jazrgz]

Like previously stated, "History is written by the ones who win" .

I totally agree with you here. it´s a universal truth. In our case, history in argentina says that the vicious guerrilas were actually innocent kids which only crime was to have long hair and liked week a lot !
I ask then, if you stand behind your statement. Who really won ???? they tried in the 70´s wining with the use of force and got defeited..they grew smarter then and used politics and media but in the end, the one group is enjoing wealth and universal praise and the other has suffered near extinction ! (the army has been slowly but surely completaly dismantled to the point that now adays Argentina has virtually none)
Again, history in this case as well, has been written by the one that won !

 

[jazrgz]

As far as I know, extremist left political factions in this country used to kill and kidnap but raping, torturing women, men, pregnant women and hers unborn children was exclusive an standard practice of the militar and para-militar forces of the dictatorial government.

Of course torturing, this is one of their M.O. Of course they torture !! about raping women, dont know of any particular case (i can imagine then that even though they killed, kidnapped and tortured they were decent enough not to rape..good for them i guess). As far as stealing babies, i dont think so, they would just killed them along with the women baring them, it´s a lot easier..again, i guess!!)

These are common crimes under common laws. They were prosecuted, found guilty and they spent many years in jail. In fact, they attacked Tablada during the 90´, I can´t remember when exactly, they were prosecuted for this new crime and found guilty again.

Found guilty and put to jail ??? only the idiot ones, the lowest ranks perhaps, the leaders and promoters of these groups are all very much free and enjoying very wealthy (sorry, meant healthy) lives here and abroad ! (many of them are actually part of our current populist administration...verbitsky, garre, and many others)
So, again, kidnapping, torturing and killing, in the name of comunism again both democratic and also dictatorial governments is common crime !! nice !! how conveniant btw !!!

You have low knowledge of our history.
There was not a war, the military killed a few prisioners who were guerrilleros, there were just a few of them. But they killed many people who´s only crime was to be young.

hmmmm, i dont know much about history ?? please go through these (and this is just one group) and then tell me again show know little of history:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ej%C3%A9rcito_Revolucionario_del_Pueblo (spanish version)

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ar}erp.html (english version)

Again, not sure if it´s on purpose or not, but really, this fact you should know about and include in the context but talking about the 70´s, otherwise is completaly biase and one-sided for instance, not valid at all !

Remember, prisioners cannot be tortured, killed or raped....or you disagree with me?

Again throwing pointless punches to change the subject. I do not disagree with this, in fact, you disagree since you are so eagarly defending armed forced that did those things as well ! i condemn both parties for doing it, you only condemn one side and protect/defend the other....hmm, again, talking about double standards !!

Regards

 

[fedecc]

The murderers of María Cristina Viola (at least 5 of them, I sincerely don't know if the commando had more members) got prosecuted, sentenced to perpetuity and were freed at the end of the 1980s so it's not about the question that the crime prescribed.
They got trialed, condemned, spent many years in jail (stayed in jail years after democracy was reinstated) and finally got liberated.

At least they payed for this dramatic event and until the early 2000's the militaries did not for many more victims.

So your facts are a bit biased (nevertheless it can sure be found examples of montoneros who commited a crime and never got prosecuted but in this example, no).

My facts are correct. One of the killers was released by a judge, but all of them were amnestied by Menem (along with the military). Some years later, the amnesty for the military was removed, but for the terrorist not. Now thats biased, my facts are not.

 

[French jurist]

My facts are correct. One of the killers was released by a judge, but all of them were amnestied by Menem (along with the military). Some years later, the amnesty for the military was removed, but for the terrorist not. Not precisely fair in my opinion.

I replied to the fact you used the word "prescription"

I just dont get how can someone be so outraged about the crimes of the military, but when someone ask for justice for lets say María Cristina Viola, they say (probably with a smirk on the face) "sorry dude, that crime prescribed". I just dont get it.

But anyway, I'll agree that more than likely some monteneros who commited criminal acts never got prosecuter/detained/jailed.

Once they have spent years in jail (in the case of María Cristina Viola), they can't be judged & jailed again for the same acts.

The Junta members did some preventive jail (mostly house arrest) but still had to be prosecuted/judged.

Anyway, everything has been said I guess and truth, like always, is not monolithic.

 

[fedecc]

The Junta members did some preventive jail (mostly house arrest) but still had to be prosecuted/judged.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicio_a_las_Juntas

 

[Amargo]

There is no debate about that those men you defend are criminals, in fact, they have been found guilty in the 80´s and recentry again. You like it or not.

I don't defend them, please read carefuly what I wrote, trying to understand as you go. Take your time, with a bit of practice you might master it.

However, as a criminal lawyer I know that criminals never admit their crimes and they always have an excuse or a weird interpretation of reality. If you want to missinform foreigners who have no idea of the Argentinian history, it is patetic, but it is the only thing you are able to do now.

Anyone can read history, there are books and even Wikipedia. Denying the ERP and Montoneros were not trained combat units (i.e. irregular Armies) and they didn't engage in combat is plain ridiculous.

Lucky me we are not in the 70´s. Otherwise you could've kidnap me, rape my wife, torture me and her, and kill us because of our opinions, freedom of speach is called, later you say we were guerrilleros and you might feel inocent but you are still the worst kind of criminal on this earth.

What a moron!