Soldiers who should face a firing squad before they die of natural causes

[Bajo_cero2]

Yes, people are still very affected by the fact that the man/woman that killed their husbands/wives/children has a seat in Congress..

Can you explain who is people?

By the way,

There is another trial against the relatives of these people, this one is about 600 busisness men who were kiddnaped and force to give all their assets to the military and para-military. Nice people those "indignados".

Regards

 

[cuore]

Can you explain who is people?

By the way,

There is another trial against the relatives of these people, this one is about 600 busisness men who were kiddnaped and force to give all their assets to the military and para-military. Nice people those "indignados".

Regards

I could mention Maria Cristina Viola for instance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlqQIB0aeIg check particularly on 4:40 if you're not convinced she's still affected, although the entire video is worth watching. Hope you appreciate it

About the assets restitution I believe that's fair since they were taken illegally. Hope they can set that one on a fair way stating exactly what was taken away and what wasn't.

 

[grgjones91]

Justice for the monsters who committed these atrocities should enjoy no statute of limiation. The economy, healthcare or any other concerns are separate issues that should remain separate. That these men were for a time granted amnesty was an act of political expediency. That most of those on the left have been able to avoid prosecution for their crimes suggests an unequal application of justice. Consequently, many Argentineans who lived through the period view the judicial process with an unhealthy cynicism.

 

[cuore]

Justice for the monsters who committed these atrocities should enjoy no statute of limiation. The economy, healthcare or any other concerns are separate issues that should remain separate. That these men were for a time granted amnesty was an act of political expediency. That most of those on the left have been able to avoid prosecution for their crimes suggests an unequal application of justice. Consequently, many Argentineans who lived through the period view the judicial process with an unhealthy cynicism.

What a well balanced, fair opinion. We should take our hats off to you. I couldn't agree with you more.

It's really bad that justice came too late for many of the victims that fell in the hands of unscrupulous men that were supposed to defend our Nation. However, it's a lot worse that justice may never come to those innocents that just happened to be related to the military and were killed for that reason... their lives were worth too.

Still, I believe that the hesitation on the judicial system has much deeper roots than those explained previously

 

[sam3g]

How have Bignone and Videla survived this long? I would assume (and have hoped) that some affected citizen would take justice into their own hands and put these guys in the ground where they belong.

 

[Fabe]

people really dont care ... the average joe really has more pressing issues than to go after these old men. Astiz on the other hand had several altercations , he was routinly jeered and spat at many places he went

 

[Matt84]

No nation but Switzerland where sovereignty is managed hands-on by every citizen who doubles as soldier, (a true federation and the only direct democracy), is free from a buse of power and mistake in power. How could either a popular revolution or a military mandate occur in a confederation where every citizens is responsible for his or her own neighborhood sovereignty? Younger nations like ex-Libya and Venezuela are pretending to do that Direct Democracy thing, but we know better. Israel, Singapore (and the old South Africa) come close but both are Corporativist regimes where the individual citizen doesn't count as much as the state. Switzerland has experimented for 800 years with retaining sovereignty in the heart of an entitled and aggressive empire - a process that eventually led to the highest level of social organizing so far.

Argentina, not being Switzerland, is not exempt from the vicissitudes of the tricky Human condition. We are interesting animals.

We all know the atrocities committed but the Germans during the last World War.
How many know however about the 16 million displaced, raped and murdered Prussians? Where's Königsberg? I can't find it on the maps. Maybe a few do know this because the liberator was evil Stalin.
But how many know about the atrocities American and Brazilian "liberators" committed throughout Italy? Read/watch "the Skin" "la Pele" if you dare.
Was any other nation immune from that same conflict? The British had to repress Communism throughout the colonies before granting them independence, from Kenya to Malaysia. Where they abstained and didn't intervene against Nationalist-Socialism and Communism the people died of starvation (as in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe).

So why should Argentina be different from most of the World, and more like Switzerland?

Should the ancient geezers who took part of the guerra sucia be hunted down as state-terrorists or enshrined as saviours of the nation? Did they kill more people than they saved?

Should these questions be asked? or rather, should any human dare to answer them?

I urge anyone interested in both theater and history to watch, while it's still free and legal on youtube, "Death and the Maiden" by Polanski based on Chilean Ari Dorfman.

 

[Fabe]

Here Here ! . Well written , a pleasure to read your post !

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Should the ancient geezers who took part of the guerra sucia be hunted down as state-terrorists or enshrined as saviours of the nation? Did they kill more people than they saved?

Well, no offense but you seems to be missinformated.

The research about what happend shows that they killed and kidnapped many busisness men just to robb their assets.

They did the same with many people, Estela de Carloto included. They were criminals and they behave like criminals.

What about the kidnapped babies? They sold them.

They also raped female and pregnant prisioners and cut their genitals (Masacre de Margarita Belen).

Don t forget the torture to men and pregnant women.

And, of course, the hidden assesination with Videla saying on national TV that there weren t desaparecidos, thet they are in Cuba or Paris.

So, yes, they are criminal and they deserve to be in Jail.

I guess that people didn t take justice by their own hands because this is precisely what happend during the 70 s and everybody was tired about political violence. And everybody wanted justice, and they finally found it.

Regards

 

[Matt84]

Well, no offense but you seems to be missinformated.

The research about what happend shows that they killed and kidnapped many busisness men just to robb their assets.


So, yes, they are criminal and they deserve to be in Jail.


Regards

I'd be thankful if you could shed some light.
Why would I care whether the people violated were businessmen or tango dancers? In my experience businessmen have a lot more interest in government-granted monopolies and Communism than any other folk except maybe human science professors.

I'm saying precisely that Argentina, like most if not all nations, has endured its part in the Global War of the 20th century. It manifested itself first as WWI and II in Europe and East Asia, but then everywhere else including Argentina.

I would like to know what would have happened if no atrocities had been committed either en blanco or en negro. Soldiers have the ability to kill legally and be honored for it - provided there's a properly recognized "War" that allows for human values to be reverted, and/or unrepressed, legalized and even made morally acceptable! So the problem here was that the war was dirty (as in no proper documents signed), or the that there should not have been a war?

What magical signatures on extensive documentation were required to stop the guerrilla legally? Was there no need to stop them because they were just a boogeyman? Please do enlighten me.

Was it unnecessary to stop the terrorists? Was the risk exaggerated?
How would have history for Argentina played out had there been no military intervention and indeed gross abuse of human rights (like the Americans did to the Italians and were honored for it afterward - or the Russians to the Germans after the Germans did the same to the Russians)

Please abstain from more graphic examples, as I said Human beings are "interesting" animals, the extent of what we're capable of doing makes the imagination run wild and is not what this thread is about.

Also please be advised that I don't have a dog in this fight, I don't have a position - I'm just learning about how people, human beings, behave when they reach certain level of population and technological growth.

Don't coins have two sides? Are there truly one-edged swords?

Why are soldiers behaving legally and even morally when following orders they murdered British soldiers retaking their land, but soldiers who were following orders from the same people to murder guerrilla are despicable?

One was in the best of cases a defensive kill, pre-emptive if you want. The other was an initiation of force - and in the best of cases a retaliation for something that happened in 1833 and resulted in no Argentine casualties? seriously, how can one soldier be a genocidal maniac that deserves to be put down, and the other a honorable war veteran that deserves a pension?
Terminate some life and subsidize some other life to compensate?

Hum, I believe the Sviss can reach the same result without the need of "cancelling out" the equation. How? Maybe by not allowing themselves to be numbers? By not wanting to be either Holy Romans in the past, United Europeans in the more recent past/presentish.

Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: "You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?" The soldier replied: "We will shoot twice and go home."