Syrian Refugees In Uruguay

[thorsten]

Because only refugees can be terrorists/criminals/<insert another prejudice here>...

 

[camberiu]

So if the charities and NGO's don't feed and house these immigrants how long before they turn to crime?

I don't know. But if we don't receive and give them sanctuary from war, how long until they turn into terrorism?

I grew up in a poor country and dysfunctional country. Very different from the US or Western Europe. But the idea of denying sanctuary to people running from war is alien to us. There is nothing more unBrazilian, than to close the door to those people. The day we even consider doing that, we might as well just damn the whole country to hell.

 

[camberiu]

It it seems that we will make sure that they do not starve. We are a very messed up country, but we have our moments.


http://youtu.be/pCVtZCqKXkc

 

[mikic007]

Yeah, I'm non-stop reading, how America open doors for everyone. Please, open the books and check, what really happened. Like Europeans came, killed or lock everyone and settled the land. Diverse? Not that much.

And if we are talking about refugees, it would be nice to mention, who actually produced them. Balkan countries? Usa, Israel, Turkey, France, Saudis and some other players...

I hate Young left hipsters whining about world peace and never addressing the cause. Hippies in seventies at least managed something, new generations are all populism with macs.

 

[scotttswan]

Yeah, I'm non-stop reading, how America open doors for everyone. Please, open the books and check, what really happened. Like Europeans came, killed or lock everyone and settled the land. Diverse? Not that much.

And if we are talking about refugees, it would be nice to mention, who actually produced them. Balkan countries? Usa, Israel, Turkey, France, Saudis and some other players...

I hate Young left hipsters whining about world peace and never addressing the cause. Hippies in seventies at least managed something, new generations are all populism with macs.

hippies of the 70s grew up and became their parents.

 

[mikic007]

hippies of the 70s grew up and became their parents.

More grandparents. But generations were always changing, no problem in that. Problem is lack of critical thinking and reality. Facebook generation simply can't understand, that actions bring responsibilities.

I was in middle east before completely fell apart, have few friends from Syria and neighboring countries and would really like, that their fellow citizens will get peace and good life. But you have to be realistic.

Majority of people lived in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt ... quite ok, although changes were coming slowly. Of course many will disagree, like USA ignorants, but if you understand the region a bit, you will know, that these were most developed countries of the region (ignore mini states rich with oil, since they are very specific and all under tyrants, which are obviously not a problem for western hypocrites) and far in front of Saudi Arabia for example. They were actually on good path to develop democratic regimes through years, they were already well organized, in many aspects similar to western world. But stable countries don't profit warlords, and all I would say about this is, follow the money. That was the only axiom for the mankind and 9/11 with following enterprises is not exception ..

The fact is, that if all people that want to live better come in Sweden for example, country will significantly change, and I doubt in better. They developed the country we see today through many sacrifices and social agreements, which will fall apart with to big influx of foreigners using social system. What will happen, when there won't be work for most of these people? For now maybe there is, but Pakistan alone has people for half Europe, majority living well below average EU citizen (in 45 years they more than triple their population, then there is Nigeria, India, whatever you want..).

Syrians alone wouldn't be any problem for Europe, especially because in case of peace in the country, majority would return. But if this summer we saw 200.000 people crossing borders, next year can be millions. There will be reactions to this, because no one wants to loose their benefits. Saying someone is left or right wing is stupid, people react and change according to the situation. There are already changes in young people, before supporting refugees, because they simply don't like their behavior. They would like pets, but are getting real people with all flaws their romantic visions did not presented before.

Yes, I am quite touchy about these things, even if for now I am living in Argentina. And this is not just for my well being, but also for the people who are not leaving refugee camps, because they want to return to their homes, as well for the people that are coming to Europe with unrealistic expectations, not realizing that it will be next to impossible to live good life there.

 

[nicoenarg]

Yeah, I'm non-stop reading, how America open doors for everyone. Please, open the books and check, what really happened. Like Europeans came, killed or lock everyone and settled the land. Diverse? Not that much.

And if we are talking about refugees, it would be nice to mention, who actually produced them. Balkan countries? Usa, Israel, Turkey, France, Saudis and some other players...

I hate Young left hipsters whining about world peace and never addressing the cause. Hippies in seventies at least managed something, new generations are all populism with macs.

The Syrian (and Iraq) problem is a sectarian one that has been around for the last 1400 years (way before Israel and the US even existed). Its nice and in fashion to want to blame third parties but in this one the only folks to blame are those that stick to the "whoever is different to me is an infidel" mantra.

We (the middle eastern folks) are capable of doing good things on our own, and exactly the same way we are capable of doing bad. Just because the majority of us are brown doesn't mean someone, somewhere has to always be pulling our strings. Its also fashionable to blame Israel for anything that happens anywhere (like the Indonesians blaming them for the Tsunami, or the Egyptians for the shark attacks against tourists) but they have absolutely nothing to do with this. Any destabilization in the region hurts them more than anyone else since they're hated by Sunnis and Shiites alike.

If third parties should be blamed here they are Saudi Arabia, Turkey (the two you mentioned), former Ba'ath (in Iraq), IS, the Ikhwan and Qatar on the Sunni side and Iran, Hezbollah, Alawis (Assad's people) in Syria, Al Sadr, Al Sistani and Al Hakim (in Iraq). Majority of these parties (with the exception of Syrian Alawis, IS and Iraqi Ba'ath) are also involved in the conflict in Yemen. And were to a huge extent in the civil war in Lebanon.

Sure there is the US supporting the fall of Assad but so is Russia propping him up. I happen to back Russia on this where they choose to keep a dictator in power who, during normal times, keeps sectarian violence "under control", rather than a pipe dream of a utopia in the Middle East where everyone is just "getting along" under a beautiful democratic system (remember the Arab spring?).

Anyway, there are legitimate refugees produced by this civil war but most of them are in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. Their lives are at risk, they run to the first place of refuge they can find, to return back to Syria when things have calmed down. Europe has nothing to do with this. Everyone here acting all "holier-than-thou" and jumping down everyone else's throats ("If you don't open your gates, you're a WAAAACIST") should probably calm down a little. People have the right to disagree with getting involved in another one of the middle eastern conflicts. Its not the end of the world.

Its always sad when a child dies, but the kid died in Turkey which is where he was living with his father, mother and siblings for the last three years (not in a refugee camp, but in a rented apartment of their own). If anyone is to blame here it is the father who put his kid's life at risk (and who may have been the smuggler himself according to local accounts). Kill your kid in a Western country because of negligence and then tell me what happens to you and which other countries you start to blame.

Anyway, to each their own, I agree with Dada though, we are blessed to not have to deal with the influx. It puts me at ease that if we get refugees from that region, they will be legitimate refugees and not those looking for monies from Mama Kirchner's stash.

 

[ARbound]

Yeah, I'm non-stop reading, how America open doors for everyone. Please, open the books and check, what really happened. Like Europeans came, killed or lock everyone and settled the land. Diverse? Not that much.

And if we are talking about refugees, it would be nice to mention, who actually produced them. Balkan countries? Usa, Israel, Turkey, France, Saudis and some other players...

I hate Young left hipsters whining about world peace and never addressing the cause. Hippies in seventies at least managed something, new generations are all populism with macs.

Well considering my BA is in International Relations I'd say I've opened quite a few books, but thanks for the advice.

You speak as if refugees are a naturally occurring part of nature, and not the victims of theirs and other states actions. The United States and other nations have created refugees directly and indirectly by either proping up dictators, taking them out, or messing with the internal affairs of nations.

In Iraq, the process of deba'athification and the rise of Sunni extremism in the West of the country didn't just happen. Taking out horrible genocidal dictators is admirable, but it also takes out a state, and has consequences too. In Iraq, when Sadam said the Arabic equivalent of le etat c'est moi he wasn't being narcissistic, he was stating a fact.

As for your hate of left wing peoples that's okay, but sad you hate people because they don't agree with you.

I will push back on your assertion we're all the same. I'm anti-populist and call out bs amongst the right and left. Chavez/Maduro are more like dictators than anything else.

I'm idealistic, but also pragmatic. You can't bomb your way to peace or holdhands get through war.

Anyways, I'm just wasting time now, if you really hate people who don't agree with you there's no point in engaging.

Also, my father is/was? a conservative Republican, so there's that...

 

[camberiu]

The Syrian (and Iraq) problem is a sectarian one that has been around for the last 1400 years (way before Israel and the US even existed).

That is certainly a very important part of it, but it is not the whole story.
When the US misguidedly invaded Iraq and overthrew Saddam, back in 2003, it inadvertently threw the region into complete chaos, by dramatically and abruptly altering the balance of power. In the posts-Saddam Iraq, the once oppressed Shia majority was empowered and Iran was dramatically strengthen. The Iraqi Sunnis, until then the ruling sect in Iraq, were literally ethnic cleansed. Baghdad went from mostly a Sunni city to a mostly Shia city in just a few years. The same happened across the entire Sunni triangle. And where did these scared, angry and now disposed Sunnis go? They found shelter with their relatives and also highly oppressed sunnis in...Syria. So, a few years ago we ended up with millions of under siege, oppressed sunnis in this Iraq-Syria no men's land. You have this dispossessed group of people, many of them former Iraqi elite republican guards, with nothing left to lose, and seeing Shia influence rising around them. They felt that noose was being tighten around their necks. It was a true powder keg ready to explode. And then the Arab spring happened, and that was the lit match that set of the power keg. The gulf states, afraid of Iraq and the growing Shia influence in the region, provided the money and the weapons. ISIS and similar groups rose from the frustration, the despair and the hopelessness of Sunnis living in between Syria and Iran. And no amount of bombs, Russian or Western, can address that. There is no military solution for this conflict. Until a diplomatic settlement that addresses the concerns of both Shia and Sunnis is secured, this conflict will continue to spiral out of control. 

 

[mikic007]

@ARbound

Probably my bad English made (again) some confusion. I do not hate people, especially not young. What I wanted to say is, that I hate their whining about things, that will never happen. Probably permissive education, ego centrism, probably combination of both, give them feeling, that just wishing something make it happen.

My post, which is also whining, I am sorry, was not really aimed at you. Problem is so complex, that no matter who or how speaks about it, is wrong. But I read in quite few newspapers (and hearing this around) about how Europeans also migrated to Americas and how nicely they were accepted ... All flowers and sunshine.

Here I was a bit sharp mentioning books, because, first, Americans were accepting their kin, similar people. Second, they emptied huge area, way bigger than Europe, from where majority came (Africans and others I wouldn't like to mention here), they simply needed workforce (which is case in Germany these days in some small scale). Comparing this would be saying, that first Arabs and Asians should erase native Europeans and then populate the empty space. That would be equivalent to what happened in Americas. However black near future in Europe might be, I seriously doubt such horror will happen there, even if some say we well deserve it ...

So again, I don't hate people who think different, not few times I changed my views because I was proved wrong. But you get more touchy, when something is not just hypothetical problem any more. I found Syria nice country and it will never be the same, even less if all young people will emigrate because of false promises. You get angry, even more when you realize that Russia is the only country with some sanity remained. Isn't that scary??

Edit: grammar