The Guardian: "Time to challenge Argentina’s white European self-image, black history experts say"

Fiscal

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Wh
This article is an example of a conclusion being based on "projected" findings that fit the researcher's (and the author's) narrative, rather than actual evidence. For example: "Delgado and Gomes prefer data from a 2005 study conducted by Afro-descendant researchers that projects 20% of the population as having at least one African forebear." Neither the methodology nor the sample population are explained in further detail, while in the very next line, this is contradicted by the findings of a more scientific study that puts the number at closer to 9%.

I'm all for anything that challenges the Argentines' inflated and sometimes delusional sense of Europeanness or "whiteness," but that also doesn't mean accepting (without evidence) that a large portion of the population is secretly black.

why do you call Argentina’s sense of whiteness delusional? This place seems whiter than rice.
 

Alfred_Arnold

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I don't know why this is a constant concern of some you. Argentina fully lived out the Spenglerlian "Decline of the West" in less than 150 years...it's something to be studied from that angle alone. One day when i feel academic enough i'll get to it. But you have epic springtime western architecture and totally unique customs spring up and then just DIE a little over a century apart. It's the perfect example of civilizational decline on an accelerated pace. There is nothing else to force interpret like this academic with the black obsession. this is full on civilizational collapse on a small level. enjoy that cumbia..lots in common with that tango orchestra from 80 years prior right?
 

on the brink

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@on the brink - Apologies I didn't mean to offend you and thanks for your reply. We all move in different circles and I previously wrote a comeback post furthering the debate, but there is actually nothing to debate about. You have one expereince I have another, and that's fine and no reason to go back and forth.
Muchas gracias.... you are quite right. Let's agree to disagree.

However, it is healthy to have our opinions challenged. Makes one re-think them.
 

Alpinista

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i often hear negrito used as a term of endearment
There was an interesting case last November in England with Cavani (an Uruguayan all time great, playing currently for Manchester United):
1622559067303.png
One of his friends from Uruguay congratulating him on scoring a goal (asi te quiero Matadorr!!!!), he simply responded to him "Gracias negrito" (which is obviously his friend's nickname). It goes without saying that there was no racist intention, nor did he think that it cause a problem.
Result:
* three match ban
* 100k GBP fine (140k USD)
* had to an anti-racism training
* he was branded as a racist in the media

You might well argue that there are insensitivities in Argentina (and Uruguay for that matter) towards racism, but you can certainly also make the point that the woke, PC culture especially in the UK and US has gone too far.
 

semigoodlookin

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There was an interesting case last November in England with Cavani (an Uruguayan all time great, playing currently for Manchester United):
View attachment 7757
One of his friends from Uruguay congratulating him on scoring a goal (asi te quiero Matadorr!!!!), he simply responded to him "Gracias negrito" (which is obviously his friend's nickname). It goes without saying that there was no racist intention, nor did he think that it cause a problem.
Result:
* three match ban
* 100k GBP fine (140k USD)
* had to an anti-racism training
* he was branded as a racist in the media

You might well argue that there are insensitivities in Argentina (and Uruguay for that matter) towards racism, but you can certainly also make the point that the woke, PC culture especially in the UK and US has gone too far.
Manchester United fan here. To be fair, I don't think he was branded racist in the media. Usually when that happens there is no way back and Cavani is well liked by the media in the UK after a good season. Also, I don't think it was a friend, but I may be wrong on that. Just a fan I thought.

If I remember correctly, the FA has backed itself into a corner with certain rules on this subject and had no choice but to issue the ban. Something along the lines of a lack of nuance in the rules around players and social media posts. Of course, the FA never said this officially, but that was the noise at the time.
 

Ronnie Hotdogs

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Basically Liverpool would have probably kicked up a stink because Suarez was banned for 3 matches I think for calling Patrice Evra Negrito.
Apparently some Spanish language ‘expert’ had claimed that it was racist.
 

semigoodlookin

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Basically Liverpool would have probably kicked up a stink because Suarez was banned for 3 matches I think for calling Patrice Evra Negrito.
Apparently some Spanish language ‘expert’ had claimed that it was racist.
This is not entirely true. Evra asked Suarez "why did you kick me" and Suarez replied "because you are black". Only those two players know 100% what happened but it went through investigation and Suarez was found guilty by the Independent Regulatory Commission. Telling someone you kicked them during a game because they are black (he used "negro" not "negrito" too) is different to calling someone negrito on your social media account. Suarez argues he said "why black?" as in, "por que negro" asking why they were arguing. He says he did not say "because you are black". Again, he was found guilty by the investigation and it is also worth noting Evra speaks five languages, including Spanish. He knows how the words are used.

Despite that, the thing that is remembered most about that episode is the awful way Liverpool F.C. handled that situation. The club would have been pilloried if they pulled that t-shirt bullshit today. And of course, FIFA's response... Sepp Blatter said racism on the field should be solved with a handshake. And people wonder why racism in football is still a thing.
 
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