The Guardian: "Time to challenge Argentina’s white European self-image, black history experts say"

[camberiu]

Yup. America obviously has huge problems with racism, and there are plenty of white supremacists. But white supremacy is the fringe, not really part of the ethos of our culture. So ordinary Americans may speak of their Irish/Scottish/Polish etc heritage, but it has a different connotation, than an Argentinian emphasizing their European heritage in an implicitly (or in Alberto's case, explicitly) comparative way, with European heritage somehow being inherently superior to all others.

The big irony is that if we concede that Argentina is essentially a country of white Europeans, then Argentina itself disproves any supposed "White European superiority".

 

[Wade K.]

Might consider also that Argentina is small population wise on a continent that's mostly not white. People are clinging to their heritage and hopeful that they can keep it in the face of being swamped by other cultures. We hear a lot about what it's like to be a minority in the U.S. Spend time in Mexico and you get a sense of what that's like if you are white. Other ethnicities and races are celebrated in the U.S. and elsewhere but celebrating your own white heritage is seen as celebrating white supremacy which is disparaged. I celebrate my Cherokee heritage. Am proud of my Scots-Irish heritage too. And don't want anyone in my face telling me I should be ashamed of either. Shit happened and it happened everywhere and wasn't committed by just whites. Deal with it. The premise of the original post seems to suggest that claiming whiteness is wrong if you have some other DNA in you. Most Argentineans are descended from Europeans. This isn't complicated.

 

[camberiu]

And don't want anyone in my face telling me I should be ashamed of either. Shit happened and it happened everywhere and wasn't committed by just whites. Deal with it.

It really does not take long to arrive at the standard strawman argument, even here, does it?
I will assume that you are acting in good faith, so let's try one more time:

Ridiculing and making fun of statements such as "we are superior because we are European" is NOT SAME AS telling people with white ancestry to be ashamed or felling guilty because of it.
There is no mass movement to suppress your ethnicity, culture or way of life. You are free to listen Bach, Polka music, Vanilla Ice and eat sour croute as much as you want. No one is trying to stop you.
But if you sit around in a park sharing mate with friends and family listening to reggaetón while at the same time bragging about how you are the "Norseman of South America", be prepared to be mocked.

 

[Girino]

People are clinging to their heritage and hopeful that they can keep it in the face of being swamped by other cultures.

You say a very true thing. I always tell my husband that European Argentina has been long gone. It was gone even before we were born. This country is being reabsorbed in the native culture which is opposite to the Western culture in many respects (work-wise, but also in terms of respect of other people's lives, accountability, justice system etc.) Half of this country want that 'original' culture, and less than half want something European-like. Perhaps the minority should leave and look for a place that fosters their same values instead of suffering and trying to hope to avoid an inexorable destiny. Life is too short to waste it hoping Argentina will become European by absorbing more and more people from neighboring countries who come from a different culture from where the white Argentina wants to go.

 

[Dougie]

Hmmm, thoughtful post from you. Eliminating this tendency among people would be interesting.
I think we can all agree on the following ten commandments.

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely—improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion—faith—tradition—and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth—beauty—love—seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the Earth—Leave room for nature—Leave room for nature.

Not sure about the 1st one, but all the rest sound reasonable to me.

 

[Wade K.]

It really does not take long to arrive at the standard strawman argument, even here, does it?
I will assume that you are acting in good faith, so let's try one more time:

Ridiculing and making fun of statements such as "we are superior because we are European" is NOT SAME AS telling people with white ancestry to be ashamed or felling guilty because of it.
There is no mass movement to suppress your ethnicity, culture or way of life. You are free to listen Bach, Polka music, Vanilla Ice and eat sour croute as much as you want. No one is trying to stop you.
But if you sit around in a park sharing mate with friends and family listening to reggaetón while at the same time bragging about how you are the "Norseman of South America", be prepared to be mocked.

Apparently you aren't aware of the ongoing attacks on "white privilege", etc being pushed in the U.S. Just the other day in a supposed academic journal some professor said that whiteness is a parasitic condition. Among other things. It's not a strawman argument, being white is under attack. Maybe you haven't heard about Critical Race Theory or the 1619 Project. What I'm saying is who ever you are be proud of it and don't let anyone try to suppress it. And if Argentineans want to consider themselves white then more power to the them. Che Guevera was part Irish. Should he have denied his heritage? It's sauerkraut by the way.

 

[Dougie]

Apparently you aren't aware of the ongoing attacks on "white privilege", etc being pushed in the U.S. Just the other day in a supposed academic journal some professor said that whiteness is a parasitic condition. Among other things. It's not a strawman argument, being white is under attack. Maybe you haven't heard about Critical Race Theory or the 1619 Project. What I'm saying is who ever you are be proud of it and don't let anyone try to suppress it. And if Argentineans want to consider themselves white then more power to the them. Che Guevera was part Irish. Should he have denied his heritage? It's sauerkraut by the way.

Are there examples where the whole wokeness, white privilege stuff has been taken too far? Yes, especially in academia. There is nothing wrong with being any shade of color from albino to dark black. The whole discussion of race is usually a way for elites not to talk about more important issues. Raytheon - We Celebrate BLM + Pride...but we engineer weapons of mass destruction for profit.

It's not simply Argentines wanting to consider themselves white. Albie said it in a way to say Brazilians are unsophisticated, uncultured jungle creatures, while we Argentines are europeans and better than that. Besides Brazil has a large native population, but also Africans, Japanese, Europeans, etc.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

It's sauerkraut by the way.

It's only Sauerkraut if you speak one of a small sub-set of the Germanic languages or insist on pronouncing words the way the locals do. For the rest of us there's Vienna, The River Plate, Reina Isabel and poor spelling.

 

[QuilmesSlo]

Are there examples where the whole wokeness, white privilege stuff has been taken too far? Yes, especially in academia. There is nothing wrong with being any shade of color from albino to dark black. The whole discussion of race is usually a way for elites not to talk about more important issues. Raytheon - We Celebrate BLM + Pride...but we engineer weapons of mass destruction for profit.

It's not simply Argentines wanting to consider themselves white. Albie said it in a way to say Brazilians are unsophisticated, uncultured jungle creatures, while we Argentines are europeans and better than that. Besides Brazil has a large native population, but also Africans, Japanese, Europeans, etc.

Many are. I went out with this beautiful brazilian girl once, when I was a young man, and I've never seen anyone eat like that. Truly, it was like she had emerged from the jungle both in her beauty and her table manners. I share this to be candid.

 

[Sybille]

Many are. I went out with this beautiful brazilian girl once, when I was a young man, and I've never seen anyone eat like that. Truly, it was like she had emerged from the jungle both in her beauty and her table manners. I share this to be candid.

What exactly is the point you're trying to make here? When I was young I knew an English guy with terrible personal hygiene, a German bloke with no table manners...Had they all been raised in the woods? Maybe!