Bajo_cero2
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And a self pardon of 4.5 billion usd sounds like corruption.
The Macri Debate
- Thread starter Daniel82
- Start date
Thanks for a rapid reply, but I sense a little too much heat and not enough light.
1. I do not consider the formation of a particularly indigenous group for a dance contest persuasive evidence of racism. Were there other categories that would allow whoever wanted to enter the contest to do so? Is this all you can come up with to label Macri a racist? Aside from a dance contest category he created (boy, what micromanaging of a cultural event by the mayor/governor!), are there other measures which show him to be a racist?
2. Is there no right to a hearing prior to deportation? I understand that the non-judical officers makes the arrest and detention may follow immediately, but are you saying there is no procedure to go before a court officer to challenge the deportation order? That seems odd and, if true, harsh. Details on the procedures?
3. Tax avoidance is entirely legal. Tax evasion is criminal. So, if the off shore entities are properly established and there is no criminality, tax avoidance is smart. Details?
4. I'd happily google hyperinflation, but you need to break it down better than what you have. What exactly is "the usd cheap?" What economic policy or maneuvers are improperly being performed which you believe is destroying farming and industry? Are you referring to a shrinking GDP to prove your point? Is GDP an issue and is it, in fact, shrinking?
1. I do not consider the formation of a particularly indigenous group for a dance contest persuasive evidence of racism. Were there other categories that would allow whoever wanted to enter the contest to do so? Is this all you can come up with to label Macri a racist? Aside from a dance contest category he created (boy, what micromanaging of a cultural event by the mayor/governor!), are there other measures which show him to be a racist?
2. Is there no right to a hearing prior to deportation? I understand that the non-judical officers makes the arrest and detention may follow immediately, but are you saying there is no procedure to go before a court officer to challenge the deportation order? That seems odd and, if true, harsh. Details on the procedures?
3. Tax avoidance is entirely legal. Tax evasion is criminal. So, if the off shore entities are properly established and there is no criminality, tax avoidance is smart. Details?
4. I'd happily google hyperinflation, but you need to break it down better than what you have. What exactly is "the usd cheap?" What economic policy or maneuvers are improperly being performed which you believe is destroying farming and industry? Are you referring to a shrinking GDP to prove your point? Is GDP an issue and is it, in fact, shrinking?
Bajo_cero2
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Racism: a) if to be a pure argentina or porteño dors not sounds racist for you, with all my respect, you should read more. B) the DNU 70/2017 signed by Macri allowed arrest without a judge’s order plus there was no defense rights. C) that system where you replace judges by administrative employed that follow orders of the President was created by the nazi Bauchman and it was the key of the genocide during the III Reich d) just in case the thief of immigration clarified that the jail for foreigners is, in fact, for Chinese because the plan is to deport them all (ethnic cleansy). e) plus all the law and decrees abolishes the Federal system replacibg it for the central government that was the same Hitler did f) to see foreigners as enemies is regarding Carl Smiddt Constitutional Theory applied on the III Reich.
Bajo_cero2
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Deportation on Macri decree’s that was declared unconstitutional.
A) the arrest if foreigners was the rule and freedom the exception.
B) no need of Court order neither a hearing.
C) deportation was possible even there were pending appeals on it. Defence right then was a joke (Court said so).
D) the immigration police was allowed to judge the Court orders abd were able to ignore them.
E) Criminal judges were replaced by immigration police for investigation traffic of immigrants and, of course they assert it does not exist (because victims has the right ro DNI).
F) judges were not able to reverse deportation orders.
Of course it is odd, he abolished the Court system and replace it for an administrative one were you always loose. This is Bauchman thesis.
A) the arrest if foreigners was the rule and freedom the exception.
B) no need of Court order neither a hearing.
C) deportation was possible even there were pending appeals on it. Defence right then was a joke (Court said so).
D) the immigration police was allowed to judge the Court orders abd were able to ignore them.
E) Criminal judges were replaced by immigration police for investigation traffic of immigrants and, of course they assert it does not exist (because victims has the right ro DNI).
F) judges were not able to reverse deportation orders.
Of course it is odd, he abolished the Court system and replace it for an administrative one were you always loose. This is Bauchman thesis.
Bajo_cero2
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Off shores: they make a loan to an off shore and the iff shore does not pay back. So, they have no income. This is Ok if you do not own the off shore. Then it is a crime.
Bajo_cero2
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4. The usd was controlled before and it is controlled now. It should be 30 or more and then the economy would be competitive. The price of usd is low because the market is full of usd from loans plus the Central Bank was selling usd a lot to keep the price low. You should google it because it happened before during a) hiperinflation and b) the crash of 2001. Why is this going to be different this time if they are doing the same? In fact, many members of the 2001 administration are now back.
While the former administration was paying debt, now they are taking it with no limit. Even the boss of the Central Bank asserted that we should go back to Fiscal superavit.
While the former administration was paying debt, now they are taking it with no limit. Even the boss of the Central Bank asserted that we should go back to Fiscal superavit.
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Bajo_cero2
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GDP: there are no statics. The big problem is how wealth is being distributed because light, gas, oil rise the prices 400% every 6 month while salaries are rising 15% average.
This is what I found:
This is what I found:
Appreciate your attempts to substantiate your accusations with facts.
"Pure Argentine" and/or "pure Porteno" sound nationalistic, not racist. How are those terms defined for purposes of the tango contest? Were such terms used otherwise, in some other context, to define or limit the rights of citizens or residents? Moreover, was it Macri or the contest organizers who independently adopted these categories? Is there nothing more for which you accuse Macri of racism? If not, this is an absurd accusation.
Preliminarily, is it wrong for a country to define who may enter its borders and under what circumstances? Secondly, do you believe that people who illegally enter Argentina, are entitled to the identical rights of Argentine citizens? Re the DNU/2017-arrest- deportation of those illegally in the country: When you say there is no right of an "appeal", from what would there be the appeal? Some kind of hearing? I am confused by the use of this word (appeal) inasmuch as an "appeal" in a judicial sense ordinarily means an appeal from a quasi judicial decision, not an arrest.
Arrest without a warrant and subsequent detention is routine in the civil justice system in the US and if I am not mistaken in other democracies around the world. Yes, the accused in a criminal case is entitled to a speedy hearing generally referred to as an arraignment (where one pleads innocent or guilty) and thereafter to a speedy trial. Please clarify. Are you saying that there is no hearing prior to deportation or are you saying that the Arg hearing in a deportation matter is before an admin officer and not a judge? The latter is commonplace as magistrates or admin officers routinely hear certain kinds of cases (probably deportation included) in the US judicial system.
Accordingly, it isn't only Adolph Eichmann of the German SS (to whom you incorrectly refer as Bauchman) who employed admin hearings in certain kinds proceedings affecting the civil rights of the participants. Without any doubt, the use of non-judges in certain judicial/administrative proceedings is not, in and of itself, a denial of due process of the law let alone a Nazi thing. The attempt to make a correlation between the madness of the nazi holocaust and rapid deportation of illegal entrants in Argentina is patently absurd. That is true whether there is a preliminary hearing or not, but much more so if there is one, even if only before some kind of admin officer.
Nevertheless, I do tend to agree that it is harsh IF the targeted illegal alien is ALWAYS deported before a hearing can be had. Is that always the case? I"m not very familiar with US laws in this area, but I believe the same may even be true in the US re illegal entrants, at least those caught entering along the southern border of the US. However, what I am most surprised at is that the "immigration enforcement authorities/police," however organized, are able to ignore court orders. This boggles my mind. If this is truly the case, then the judicial and policing systems need review and modification. No one in the executive branch of government should be able to ignore a proper judicial decree. At least, where I come from that would be grounds for impeachment
Re the chicanery of shuffling money between off shore entities and those that control them in order to avoid taxes, I presume there are applicable criminal laws in Argentina regarding tax evasion. If so, the appropriate judicial officers ought to determine whether the laws were violated. Is there nothing going forward in this regard? Is that because the Argentine law was not violated? (Legal tax avoidance vs illegal tax evasion.) Can you specify exactly how a crime was committed? If the delinquent corporate borrower was in fact controlled by the lender, then presumably a crime was committed. Is there no one prepared to bring such a case? What gives? I would imagine Macri has plenty of enemies in Congress who could assert pressure to institute appropriate penal proceedings whether impeachment or otherwise.
How does Macri's involvement in Odebrecht ) rise to the level of a crime? (Is your use of 'Obedrecht' an intentional Yiddish pun?) You have not answered this. Are you attempting to tar him with the same brush as the Brasilian politicians who got caught with their fingers in the state till robbing state funds? You need to specify. Mindless incantation of the word "Obedrecht" means nothing.
Re "gas. light, oil prices" - there was a tremendous increase at the start of Mari's term (not sure if it was 400%, but it was huge). That was not politic and not geared to garner support from the voting public so, if anything, it goes to show that Macri was not acting just to be a popular leader. The fact of the matter is that the huge increases were indubitably necessary for the utility companies to remain effectively operational. After all, they were receiving massive state subsidies so that the people who live in the Recoleta could have unnecessarily minuscule utility bills. Talk about "wealth distribution!" Hey, it was like "free electricity" underwritten by those who gave you "milanesas para todos." Unfortunately, the utility subsidies were depleting the state's treasury - not in the best interests of the country, but an irresponsible ploy for the power hungry K Klan to gain uninformed public popularity.
In fact, the initial huge increase was rolled back slightly and I am totally confounded by your assertion that there has been a 400% increase in utility bills every 6 months. That is patently false. Subsequent increases have been nowhere near that high and now may even still be be less than they were after the initial huge increase at the start of his term.
In re the propping up of the peso...I don't dispute the Arg government may be flooding the market with USD to keep the price low. This may or may not be a valid fiscal policy necessary in the short term, but like you I doubt if it will remain a long term panacea for the ills that plague the Arg economy. Productivity needs to be improved by modification of existing employment and tax laws to generate investment in manufacturing and farming. It is a shame that a country with a population as well educated as that of Argentina lacks a viable tech industry and other manufacturing industries.
"Pure Argentine" and/or "pure Porteno" sound nationalistic, not racist. How are those terms defined for purposes of the tango contest? Were such terms used otherwise, in some other context, to define or limit the rights of citizens or residents? Moreover, was it Macri or the contest organizers who independently adopted these categories? Is there nothing more for which you accuse Macri of racism? If not, this is an absurd accusation.
Preliminarily, is it wrong for a country to define who may enter its borders and under what circumstances? Secondly, do you believe that people who illegally enter Argentina, are entitled to the identical rights of Argentine citizens? Re the DNU/2017-arrest- deportation of those illegally in the country: When you say there is no right of an "appeal", from what would there be the appeal? Some kind of hearing? I am confused by the use of this word (appeal) inasmuch as an "appeal" in a judicial sense ordinarily means an appeal from a quasi judicial decision, not an arrest.
Arrest without a warrant and subsequent detention is routine in the civil justice system in the US and if I am not mistaken in other democracies around the world. Yes, the accused in a criminal case is entitled to a speedy hearing generally referred to as an arraignment (where one pleads innocent or guilty) and thereafter to a speedy trial. Please clarify. Are you saying that there is no hearing prior to deportation or are you saying that the Arg hearing in a deportation matter is before an admin officer and not a judge? The latter is commonplace as magistrates or admin officers routinely hear certain kinds of cases (probably deportation included) in the US judicial system.
Accordingly, it isn't only Adolph Eichmann of the German SS (to whom you incorrectly refer as Bauchman) who employed admin hearings in certain kinds proceedings affecting the civil rights of the participants. Without any doubt, the use of non-judges in certain judicial/administrative proceedings is not, in and of itself, a denial of due process of the law let alone a Nazi thing. The attempt to make a correlation between the madness of the nazi holocaust and rapid deportation of illegal entrants in Argentina is patently absurd. That is true whether there is a preliminary hearing or not, but much more so if there is one, even if only before some kind of admin officer.
Nevertheless, I do tend to agree that it is harsh IF the targeted illegal alien is ALWAYS deported before a hearing can be had. Is that always the case? I"m not very familiar with US laws in this area, but I believe the same may even be true in the US re illegal entrants, at least those caught entering along the southern border of the US. However, what I am most surprised at is that the "immigration enforcement authorities/police," however organized, are able to ignore court orders. This boggles my mind. If this is truly the case, then the judicial and policing systems need review and modification. No one in the executive branch of government should be able to ignore a proper judicial decree. At least, where I come from that would be grounds for impeachment
Re the chicanery of shuffling money between off shore entities and those that control them in order to avoid taxes, I presume there are applicable criminal laws in Argentina regarding tax evasion. If so, the appropriate judicial officers ought to determine whether the laws were violated. Is there nothing going forward in this regard? Is that because the Argentine law was not violated? (Legal tax avoidance vs illegal tax evasion.) Can you specify exactly how a crime was committed? If the delinquent corporate borrower was in fact controlled by the lender, then presumably a crime was committed. Is there no one prepared to bring such a case? What gives? I would imagine Macri has plenty of enemies in Congress who could assert pressure to institute appropriate penal proceedings whether impeachment or otherwise.
How does Macri's involvement in Odebrecht ) rise to the level of a crime? (Is your use of 'Obedrecht' an intentional Yiddish pun?) You have not answered this. Are you attempting to tar him with the same brush as the Brasilian politicians who got caught with their fingers in the state till robbing state funds? You need to specify. Mindless incantation of the word "Obedrecht" means nothing.
Re "gas. light, oil prices" - there was a tremendous increase at the start of Mari's term (not sure if it was 400%, but it was huge). That was not politic and not geared to garner support from the voting public so, if anything, it goes to show that Macri was not acting just to be a popular leader. The fact of the matter is that the huge increases were indubitably necessary for the utility companies to remain effectively operational. After all, they were receiving massive state subsidies so that the people who live in the Recoleta could have unnecessarily minuscule utility bills. Talk about "wealth distribution!" Hey, it was like "free electricity" underwritten by those who gave you "milanesas para todos." Unfortunately, the utility subsidies were depleting the state's treasury - not in the best interests of the country, but an irresponsible ploy for the power hungry K Klan to gain uninformed public popularity.
In fact, the initial huge increase was rolled back slightly and I am totally confounded by your assertion that there has been a 400% increase in utility bills every 6 months. That is patently false. Subsequent increases have been nowhere near that high and now may even still be be less than they were after the initial huge increase at the start of his term.
In re the propping up of the peso...I don't dispute the Arg government may be flooding the market with USD to keep the price low. This may or may not be a valid fiscal policy necessary in the short term, but like you I doubt if it will remain a long term panacea for the ills that plague the Arg economy. Productivity needs to be improved by modification of existing employment and tax laws to generate investment in manufacturing and farming. It is a shame that a country with a population as well educated as that of Argentina lacks a viable tech industry and other manufacturing industries.
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lamarque
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Jajajajja, im getting a blast reading the bunch of bullshit you are writing bajoCero, you are not only lying but as well evading the true by conveniently showing the data you want and hide the one you dont. You showed in that chart only the first year of macri that was the only year where the gdp shrinked, and to be fair was 99% what cristina left the cause of it, and he has to fix a huge part of the mess cristina left behind. Last year 2017 was growing at 3%, this year is growing again even with the big problem of the drought that is heavily affecting the harvest, and next year is going to grow quite strong again (of course that is a guess, but quite an educated one, you can remind me next year if i missed the prediction). Im sure 2 years from now as the only bad data you will have about gdp is of 2016, you will still be showing the same chart lol. Typical of you bajo. And regarding all the other bullshit you wrote about nazis lol i cannot even comment that because is just to much to take it serious.
lamarque
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He does have a difficult situation to correct but the fact that he is tackling the problems even if many of the policy he is taking is against his own image is quite a good signal (i do not agree with many decisions but overall good politician when compared to Cristina).
In this country no one want to take the cost of doing the right thing, and when one does some ill informed people like yourself BajoCero use it as an way to attack them, you cannot truly believe that giving free electricity to people at the expense of the energy companies that stop investing as a consequence and the government that loose crazy amount of money to keep this useless subsidies is a good idea. Is a crazy stupid idea only created for political benefit by the Kirchner, no more than a demagogic decision when countries around the world are trying to reduce energy consumption here was so cheap that you just left all on without even thinking twice about it. Off course many people love this in Argentina, that why this country is still not a very rich country and that way we give place to that type of politicians, i am Argentinean but hey i really hate the stupid way of voting in this country, we are the reason of our own lack of success.
Even if you are in favor of the energy subsidies that already talk bad of yourself, the people that get the most benefit of them where the middle and rich classes, the new system fix this, poor people still get a very cheap electric bill, just now middle and rich people have to pay the right price.
In this country no one want to take the cost of doing the right thing, and when one does some ill informed people like yourself BajoCero use it as an way to attack them, you cannot truly believe that giving free electricity to people at the expense of the energy companies that stop investing as a consequence and the government that loose crazy amount of money to keep this useless subsidies is a good idea. Is a crazy stupid idea only created for political benefit by the Kirchner, no more than a demagogic decision when countries around the world are trying to reduce energy consumption here was so cheap that you just left all on without even thinking twice about it. Off course many people love this in Argentina, that why this country is still not a very rich country and that way we give place to that type of politicians, i am Argentinean but hey i really hate the stupid way of voting in this country, we are the reason of our own lack of success.
Even if you are in favor of the energy subsidies that already talk bad of yourself, the people that get the most benefit of them where the middle and rich classes, the new system fix this, poor people still get a very cheap electric bill, just now middle and rich people have to pay the right price.
