The Use Of The Word, "lynching" In The Media.

[ajoknoblauch]

This type of robbery and violence is not necessarily about being poor. It is more about being disenfranchised, or adopting the outlaw mentality. I think of it more like a subculture. They have not accepted the mainstream social contract and if you are not part of their culture, you are an outsider. A lack of value for property is closely related to lack of value for another person's time (spent creating or earning the property), their dreams, and a general lack of respect for life. An inability to see beyond yourself. It's about objectifying others, and a highly inflated sense of entitlement. I know many poor people who do not lack the ability to respect property, to have empathy, or to respect life. If you can maintain a moto then I imagine you can likely cover the basic necessities of life.

Unless, of course, you've stolen the moto.

 

[GS_Dirtboy]

If everyone had their needs covered, why should robbery exist? what for? you would not have the necesity!!

Matias. With all due respect you know not of what you speak, sir!

Those who say that poverty creates criminals make this sh*t up in their heads. I grew up in rural Alabama. Argentina is no worse than rural Alabama when it comes to poverty, or for that matter lack of education or outcast people. We had neighbors who literally lived day-to-day. They had no idea where the food for their next meal was coming from and the husband did whatever odd job just to get by. Often, we would leave food from our garden at their back door. Surely as the sun rises the father, mother, and sometimes the little kids would appear on our farm the next day doing "jobs" so they could "pay" for the food. My Grandfather never said anything to them about it and one day I asked why he let them work when we really didn't need any help. He said it was to let them keep their dignity.

When you marginalize criminal activity by associating it with poverty you do a huge injustice to the poor that do no resort to stealing.

I also have lived in large cities where many of my friends were extraordinarily wealthy. Some of my school friends actually drove Porches to high school! I can tell you first-hand there are criminals in every socio-economic group. That the poor have more criminals than the rich is a propaganda lie!

 

[khairyexpat]

When you have the right to:

• free schools,
• free health care,
• government family assistance and child support,
• you can even claim the right to public land and live on it free, no rent no luz bills.
• you can legally claim the title of the land you grab for free.
• it's possible to live free with DIGNITY in peace, have mate & asado if that is all you want.

You can also start from there, building your way & your life up towards consumerism and iPhones & motos.

This is UNIQUE to Argentina, and I always empathised with that.
It's a good dignified system for the unfortunate to get a second chance to stand on their own feet.
No other country in the world offers anything any near close to all this.

Poverty line has a meaning :

• in 40 & 50 degrees below zero 7 month of the year with no other option.
• when there is no such a thing as grab public land and build your own house there, and we will give you a legal title to it. It is yours free.
• when you can be forced to sell your house to pay your midical bills if you get sick.
• when there is no other option but to work
• etc etc

Poverty line does NOT have a meaning

• when you are entitled to live with dignity (albiet you may not have an iPhone ... but with dignity nontheless) in your own house built by you on public land and you don't even pay for it. With government assistance and child support. In a humanly livable weather all year around.
• It's not meant to cover the iPhone and motos needs of the 35%.
• When you have the option to do nothing & live free, till you can figure out if you can or want do something else.
• when you have so many other alternatives and options.

We are all human ... believe me ... no one likes to see anyone else suffering or hurting. I always empathized with Argentina model to be different .. struggle to accomplish a UNIQUE identity. Poverty line for the rest of the world does not apply to Argentina, and does not have the same meaning or consequences.

Covering the need to climb the consumerism ladder, robbing iPhones & motos with violence .... is very very very different from covering the need of a REAL poor stealing bread in 50 degree below.

 

[ARbound]

Have to really question the empathy the President has for the poor of Argentina. In my view, she pimps the poor for her own selfish political agenda. Argentina spends a billion on "Football For All", which is suppose to do what for improving the quality of life for the impoverished? Anything that comes out of that woman's mouth is suspect.

The "Mother of All Argentines" also said a few weeks ago that "I don't think any Argentines are starving". That's nice dear that you think that, but you also seem to
think 8 pesos will get you a dollar and that too is wishful thinking.

The fact that Football Para Todos is broadcast in HD also gets me...along with all the commercials saying how great Argentina is and how much "Presedencia de la Nacion" is doing to help everyone. When Cristina starts talking, I stop listening. I know what I'm going to hear is bullshit like how the Falklands are just NATO's South Atlantic base.

I actually agree with OP, these aren't Lynchings. Lynching is what happened, and still does occasionally, mainly in the South to innocent African-Americans. This mob
vigilantism is directed at scum who prey on the weak, vulnerable, oblivious or stupid.

I'm sorry, I will always be against capital punishment, but I'll be damned to shed a tear for that little shit that tried to rob a woman with her baby. Did he deserve to die? Of course not, but he's not the victim, he became on by choosing to target a vulnerable person, afraid for the safety of her child.

The government needs to remove it's focus from "the poor people who are "forced" to steal wallets and phones" (I don't think we'd have this discussion if they were stealing food from Carrefour) to preventing them from becoming targets in the first place.

Finally, this is not the media's fault and it's not Macri and Massa's fault. Cristina and Co are real slime for blaming them and the media for just reporting the news, and I don't even like Macri or Massa.

 

[mc kenna]

There's never a valid excuse to steal or be a thief,no matter how poor you are,if it comes down to it you ask for work in exchange for food.
The lynching ''victims'' were not stealing bread or fruits for their families.
I wish people like Matias would quit trying to justify thieves.
What we see is nothing more than the result of a decada ganada where according to the gov and Matias this is the best gov we had since Jesus walked the earth and yet these problems are increasing.
GS mentioned something very important,DIGNITY,which it was very swiftly removed from people in this country when this gov decided to start social plans without expiration date and created a sense of entitlement on the poor .So after years of this type of politics the message was'' you have to give me because you have stuff and i dont''
I am not against the poor, i'm against those who pretend to be and take advantage of a system created to help those in need.
And lastly let's not confuse thieves with poor.If you steal you are a thief no matter how you slice it and if you are poor but honest there might be a chance for you and maybe one day you might not be as poor, but for that you would need to have DIGNITY.

 

[nelaursen]

this site is embarrassingly derechista.

 

[EricLovesBA]

To provoke the debate a bit further, does the dominant "para todos" philosophy actually make these problems worse?

If you barrage people with enough propaganda that we are meant to be completely equal, that we deserve equal access to all the same resources, perhaps it intensifies their sense of entitlement to an unhealthy level?

How many times have you heard here that the "government owes me a job".

If you are owed a job but don't have one, and somebody else obviously does, or they unjustly make more than you, aren't you at least entitled to a few things they bought with the money from their job? If the money was not adequately redistributed, I'll just make up for it by confiscating your iphone!

 

[ajoknoblauch]

this site is embarrassingly derechista.

Criticizing robbery, assault and vigilantism is "derechista?"

 

[ARbound]

this site is embarrassingly derechista.

You mean community, and sorry we're not all Kirchnerista/Chavistas. Some like myself are just normal socialists.
Looks like you got lost and registered on the wrong forum! We're more than happy to point you in the right direction.

Love to steal? Like failed justice systems? Believe the poor are a tool to be used to gain power? You'll feel right at
home here: www.lacampora.org

 

[Redpossum]

You mean community, and sorry we're not all Kirchnerista/Chavistas. Some like myself are just normal socialists.
Looks like you got lost and registered on the wrong forum! We're more than happy to point you in the right direction.

Love to steal? Like failed justice systems? Believe the poor are a tool to be used to gain power? You'll feel right at
home here: www.lacampora.org

Now hold on, ARBound. That's no way to greet a new member. I know for a fact you're a nicer person than that

I wasn't even sure what derechista meant, but I'm guessing from your reaction it's like right-wing?

nelaurson, perhaps you came in at the middle of the conversation and got the wrong impression. Opinions here cover a wide range of political views. We talk about things. Sometimes we argue. But you really can't just pigeonhole the entire community. Pardon ARBound for getting a little hot. It's just that you did come in at the middle of a rather passionate discussion, when emotions are running high, and he really does care very much.