There is something I don't get...

[trapiche]

citygirl: I am in Orlando now but have been in BA and will be back in September. You probably have been in Arg for a long time and you know the ups and downs, but do you continue to bitch daily about everything that is wrong with Arg?

 

[SaraSara]

citygirl: I am in Orlando now but have been in BA and will be back in September. You probably have been in Arg for a long time and you know the ups and downs, but do you continue to bitch daily about everything that is wrong with Arg?

In my viey, citygirl's comments are very balanced - not bitchy at all.

Someone commented on how we Argentines love to complain and criticize everything under the sun. It is quite true, but some take offense when expats do it. It's a case of "I have the right to beat up my little brother if I want to, but don't you dare touch my second cousin".

 

[citygirl]

Trapiche - are you asking me if I bitch daily or saying that I do? I would say I don't. And really, the reason I don't is because it just depresses me. Some things have to be "let go" because they're not going to change and focusing on the negative only makes me negative. And I don't want to be around people (porteño or expat) who do nothing but complain about how bad it is here. It offends me (and I'm not from here) and quite frankly, it's boring.

Sure, there are some things I will always bitch about - how hard is it to clean up after your dog? Take some pride in your city and your home! And I will continue to say that for a city of this size and with the amount of international citizens, I would love to see an improvement in the dining choices. And that having a company here is an exercise in patience (or stupidity, I'm not sure which)

I will also continue to point out the things I love here: the architecture, the feeling of neighborhood, the fact that my waiter at the cafe gives me a kiss on the cheek and his best piropos every day, the fact that you can be in the country in 30 minutes while living in a major city, the wine, the museums, the fact that its okay to spend an hour having coffee with your friend without both of you checking your blackberry.

But above all, I get that this is a board where many people gather to vent to other people who share their cultural backgrounds and perhaps their frustrations. And that just b/c people bitch about it online doesn't mean they don't love it. And that it is probably a lot more polite to bitch here than to a porteño!

 

[ssr]

On a different note, the melancholic lyrics of Tango, and the music itself, trace its roots back to the time when the inmigrants were sad about having left their origin countries. The 'Back home everything was better' attitude seems to be quite universal. It is not difficult - after reading some posts - where the amargado character of some porteños comes from.

I think you're confusing things a bit, malbec. The majority of folks posting here are just hanging around Argentina for a while, for whatever reason, not emigrating here. And unlike poor folks who fled Europe in search of opportunity abroad a century ago, most of us can fare far better back home than here in Argentina. And getting to and from Europe, or wherever, no longer takes months on a ship; most of us can be back home overnight.

What you seem to be describing above is the cynicism that developed here when poor immigrants realized that they'd emigrated to a deeply corrupt place and were stuck here (when you have so many people clinging desperately to the idea that they're actually just misplaced Italians, after three or four generations in another country, you've got a serious national self-esteem problem).

We're just expats, whatever the hell that means, bitching. And since this is BAExpats.org, Buenos Aires Expatriates Group, it seems an appropriate place to do it.

What I don't get is why a handful of hyper-sensitive Argentines come to this site every day looking for any opportunity to take offense. It's nuts. Anyone do this sort of thing back home? Visit, say, SydneyExpats.org to rant at foreigners? Or maybe just take to the streets wearing some weird sign to scream at foreigners through a bullhorn? C'mon, come clean... who's a malbec back home?

 

[RogueTango]

I come to this forum for advise and some experienced 2 cents when I need it. Some of the complaints can be exessive, but some are educational. I complain to my friends about the food and the friggin sidewalks but it's not enough to make me want to leave. It's called a coping mechanism people. This IS an Expat forum after all. It IS a fact that the sidewalks are a wretched mess, I have twisted my ankle several times, I think I've earned the right to complain. One major reason there isn't improvement in my opinion is that they don't (or can't I don't know) file law suits for every bump amd bruise like they do in the states. Anyhow, I digress. All I am saying is let the people vent. Who is it hurting really? And if you are a local who is offended by it, why are you hanging around an Expat website anyhow? We have to deal with enough Yankee hating in our everyday lives, why not just let us have our little corner of the cyberworld to vent?

 

[RogueTango]

Aleli, Im 90% in your side...
but you know something, they never NEVER talk about the dark side of their country...
Like they have to pray all days to never have a surgery in a hospital,or pay for a university to their sons for example....
they read the news and walk around paranoic...
But , yes ! insecurity, Poo..

What? I don't understand any of what you just said except "the dark parts" of our country. We don't need to talk about that here, because we are HERE, that is not what is immediatley affecting our every day lives. Not to mention there are thousands if not more radio, tv, internet sites, where people can bitch about their own country and trust, we do. It's not the point of this forum. And again i ask, really out of curiousity more than anything else; Why are there so many natives complaining about expats on an expat forum?

 

[Lucas]

If someone is dazed and confused they should read the thread heading post and no let someone else explain what this thread is all about including what the OP was trying to communicate in the first place....

Let's read it once more, shall we?

Hi, I am an argentinian girl who has been reading this forum, and there is something I don't get...
In general, foreigners who post here are those who call themselves 'expats' which means that they don't come here as tourists for a couple of days and stay in a 5 stars hotel... but they are more likely to not have a regular job and pick up a cheap detination to do something that is closer to the definition of an immigrant than to the definition of a tourist...
I read so many posts here saying all the things you dislike about BA, the food, restaurants, cloth, people's attitude, broken sidewalks, dirty streets, low quality products, inflation, security, etc... When you came down here didn't you know that the difference between a developped country and a developping country is that in the first one there is a big middle class with more than a decent standard of living and that in those countries which are developping, the best you get is according to how much can you afford???

And by the way, didn't you think for one minute that argentinian people like food the way they like it (argentinian style, no spicy) and restaurant owners won't loose their local clients in order to adapt to a reduced group of expats who can afford to eat out from once in a while???

We do have huge economic problem, corrupt politicians, bad infraestructure, etc, etc, but what did you expected? Switzerland in south america? If we were switzerland you wouldn't have come down here to live cheap as an expat... why don't u guys just leave this complicated, corrupted, confusing developing country with bad food and arrogant women and go back home, get a real life, a real job, form a family and came back in the future with a few extra bucks, stay in a first class hotel and enjoy this city in a proper way???

I don't approve nor endorse what she is saying or implying, but some true bits on her view and analysis are quite validated.

 

[Gringoboy]

We all have a right to complain, within reason.
When you've lived here a few years (in my experience) you get to see the other side of the coin, i.e what the Argentines themselves think about their own country, which in my eyes is a damned sight more important than what we 'expats' think about it.
I'm a Brit and yes we just love a good moan about Blighty, but then we've been doing that for yonks and we always will.
I've had some interesting encounters with many Argentines and the fact that I'm British, living here voluntarily usually has them scratching their heads and asking why. Reminds me of when Jack Nicholson discovers in One Flew of the Cuckoos nest, that most of his fellow inmates could walk out anytime they wished. He thought they were bonkers!
I complain to Argentines about certain issues, but am careful not to over step the mark. On the other hand, many Argentines themselves have said to me that they feel the country is in the state it's in because of they themselves. They seem to take the blame for it all.
I don't live in cap fed, but out in the sticks and maybe see a different side, but I can't help thinking that if things are going to change it has to start at the roots.
How many times do we see people chucking crap out of their cars, five up on a scooter and no crash helmets, a horse and cart (with following bikes and pedestrians) on the motorway, kids not strapped into cars etc etc?
On the other hand, I can never forget the kindness I have been shown here by ordinary Argentine folk, which is genuine and never loaded.
This subject, in it's various form has reared it's head before and calls for those who don't like it to leave, are way out of order.
And just to finish, a lady came into my shop the other day and after the usual 'Brit living in looney land' intro, she asked me why I didn't go back to live in the Utopia of UK (in her eyes), where all is peace, tranquility and order (cough) i had to reply that I was very happy here. She left shaking her head rather bemused.

 

[tangobob]

Reminds me of when Jack Nicholson discovers in One Flew of the Cuckoos nest, that most of his fellow inmates could walk out anytime they wished. He thought they were bonkers!
.

They were, that is why they were in a nut house.

Welcome to the asylum. I will be back for another voluntary internment Friday.

 

[laureltp]

In whatever case, have you noticed that the girl who started this complained about us complaining. Then we complained about her complaining about how we complain. Now I am about to complain about everything.... wowsers, I think we all have a whiner pants side to us.

Anyway, all I want to say is that in any case, I really don't like it when Argentines come on this website and make negative comments about the expats on here. I love this city but there are some parts of it that are hard to tolerate. The Argentines know it, they complain about it just as much as we do. But that's not necessarily reason to go home. Maybe there are other things at home that I don't like either. I would just be trading my problems here for a different set of problems at home.

But what I want to say is please don't be so harsh. It's a very unwelcoming feeling to have someone tell if you to go home. I certainly hope that most Argentines don't think that we should leave there country. Comments like these don't solve any problems, it just makes you feel unwanted by the locals.