There is something I don't get...

ALELI

Registered
Hi, I am an argentinian girl who has been reading this forum, and there is something I don't get...
In general, foreigners who post here are those who call themselves 'expats' which means that they don't come here as tourists for a couple of days and stay in a 5 stars hotel... but they are more likely to not have a regular job and pick up a cheap detination to do something that is closer to the definition of an immigrant than to the definition of a tourist...
I read so many posts here saying all the things you dislike about BA, the food, restaurants, cloth, people's attitude, broken sidewalks, dirty streets, low quality products, inflation, security, etc... When you came down here didn't you know that the difference between a developped country and a developping country is that in the first one there is a big middle class with more than a decent standard of living and that in those countries which are developping, the best you get is according to how much can you afford???

And by the way, didn't you think for one minute that argentinian people like food the way they like it (argentinian style, no spicy) and restaurant owners won't loose their local clients in order to adapt to a reduced group of expats who can afford to eat out from once in a while???

We do have huge economic problem, corrupt politicians, bad infraestructure, etc, etc, but what did you expected? Switzerland in south america? If we were switzerland you wouldn't have come down here to live cheap as an expat... why don't u guys just leave this complicated, corrupted, confusing developing country with bad food and arrogant women and go back home, get a real life, a real job, form a family and came back in the future with a few extra bucks, stay in a first class hotel and enjoy this city in a proper way???
 

nikad

Registered
Some hard cold truth in your post Aleli, however think that some people do not chose to come here, but they are transferred for work, etc.
 

fifilafiloche

Registered
Wait for a few more replies and they might criticize you for not writing English the way they do back home :p

Once again, Alli, sorry for those black sheeps, they are inevitable in all communities.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
Oh my God, it's their country, after all!

If Argentines were so dependent on tourists (or expats) they would fix the sidewalks, pick up the dog poop, and serve spicy food, wouldn't they?

The point is they really don't need us and for us to act like they do (or should change to suit us) is arrogant and offensive to them...

Just as it should be.

I did not move to Argentina to tell Argentines how to live.

I live the way they do (adding spices to my own cooking as I please).

Perhaps that's why I'm so happy here.
 

ElQueso

Registered
Aleli, one of the things that many people don't undestand about some foreigners, often from "developed" nations, and maybe estadounidenses are the biggest group of this particular type, is that we complain.

We don't just complain about Argentina, we complain about stuff in our own country as well. It's one of the reasons that things get better in our countries (and that is an opinion related to our own country) is because people often don't accept things for the way they are (I'm an estadounidense and am only actually talking for that group, although there are many estadounidenses that don't agree with me, I'm sure). Of course, that goes for many things, but not everything, like politics for example, which doesn't matter what anyone says because people can't seem to change that any more, really.

Many expats here are not immigrants, and don't plan to live forever here. Many of us don't understand some of the roadblocks that exist and the reasons for them, at least at first. Complaining and talking about them is a way to deal with them and find ways around them when possible. Sometimes there are aspects of life here that are hard to acclimatize to, and again, discussing this and complaining about it can help to sort it out.

In the US, there is a saying that is somewhat controversial these days (thank god!): "America: Love it or leave it." It used to be just accepted. People didn't complain very much. They just took what was handed them and put up with it. In the '50s and '60s a lot of that started changing. You still hear the saying, but the number of people who will argue against that are growing.

I would hope that expats could be sensitive when talking to their Argentine friends and acquaintances in life itself and not produce such large complaints in person. That is rude and is unacceptable (or should be).

But this is an expat forum, a place to exchange information among expats, and I would think, a place to help blow off a little steam as expats try to acclimatize to life here.
 

ssr

Registered
steveinbsas said:
Oh my God, it's their country, after all!

If Argentines were so dependent on tourists (or expats) they would fix the sidewalks, pick up the dog poop, and serve spicy food, wouldn't they?

The point is they really don't need us and for us to act like they do (or should change to suit us) is arrogant and offensive to them...

Just as it should be.

I did not move to Argentina to tell Argentines how to live.

Perhaps that's why I'm so happy here.
Nobody's telling anyone how to live, Steve...

ElQueso said:
Aleli, one of the things that many people don't undestand about some foreigners, often from "developed" nations, and maybe estadounidenses are the biggest group of this particular type, is that we complain.

We don't just complain about Argentina, we complain about stuff in our own country as well. It's one of the reasons that things get better in our countries... because people often don't accept things for the way they are...

But this is an expat forum, a place to exchange information among expats, and I would think, a place to help blow off a little steam as expats try to acclimatize to life here.
Exactly. But, unfortunately, there is a great deal of insecurity here in once-great Argentina. And no shortage of false pride (which leads to lots of conversations that go something like this: "Argentina is the best!" "Eh, it's okay." "How dare you pick on us, we're just a poor third world country!"). Seems counter-productive to constantly swing between those two extremes but, hey, TIA. Not my place to tell Argentines how to live, right? (<-Steve bait ;))
 

nikad

Registered
Well, I try to help others out here with little things, and I know a lot of people blow off their steam here, as they find many things to be very frustrating, however I think that criticism is good when it is followed by something constructive. Maybe the reason why many expats do not get involved and try to change things for the better, is because they do not see themselves as immigrants, it might be a new category of people that just spend a few years in a foreign country for different reasons, but with no intention of living there permanently, so why bother? Our grandparents came here to stay and basically sculpted and built this society with the good and the bad.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
ElQueso said:
Aleli, one of the things that many people don't undestand about some foreigners, often from "developed" nations, and maybe estadounidenses are the biggest group of this particular type, is that we complain.

We don't just complain about Argentina, we complain about stuff in our own country as well. It's one of the reasons that things get better in our countries (and that is an opinion related to our own country) is because people often don't accept things for the way they are (I'm an estadounidense and am only actually talking for that group, although there are many estadounidenses that don't agree with me, I'm sure). Of course, that goes for many things, but not everything, like politics for example, which doesn't matter what anyone says because people can't seem to change that any more, really.

Many expats here are not immigrants, and don't plan to live forever here. Many of us don't understand some of the roadblocks that exist and the reasons for them, at least at first. Complaining and talking about them is a way to deal with them and find ways around them when possible. Sometimes there are aspects of life here that are hard to acclimatize to, and again, discussing this and complaining about it can help to sort it out.

In the US, there is a saying that is somewhat controversial these days (thank god!): "America: Love it or leave it." It used to be just accepted. People didn't complain very much. They just took what was handed them and put up with it. In the '50s and '60s a lot of that started changing. You still hear the saying, but the number of people who will argue against that are growing.

I would hope that expats could be sensitive when talking to their Argentine friends and acquaintances in life itself and not produce such large complaints in person. That is rude and is unacceptable (or should be).

But this is an expat forum, a place to exchange information among expats, and I would think, a place to help blow off a little steam as expats try to acclimatize to life here.

It's one thing to ask questions about how life works here and advise others about the "pitfalls" of living in Argentina, especially for the newly arrived, but there still seem to be quite a few expats who decided to move to Argentina without ever having visited, even once. Do they end up being the biggest complainers? Sometimes they do. And those of us who have been here a while do try to help them, even as they continue to complain and bash Argentina (while waiting to sell their real estate holdings at an exorbitant profit).

Argentines have much to complain and protest about, but have you seen any demonstrations for spicy food or smooth sidewalks.

The relatively few expats who are transferred here are usually paid in dollars or euros and most of them can afford to live quite well, perhaps enjoying a higher standard of living than they would in their home country and far better than the average Argentine. These expats are not here involuntarily. They are not slaves. They are free to go anytime they want, but the money keeps them here...even if "the life" doesn't.
 

steveinbsas

Registered
ssr said:
Nobody's telling anyone how to live, Steve...



Exactly. But, unfortunately, there is a great deal of insecurity here in once-great Argentina. And no shortage of false pride (which leads to lots of conversations that go something like this: "Argentina is the best!" "Eh, it's okay." "How dare you pick on us, we're just a poor third world country!"). Seems counter-productive to constantly swing between those two extremes but, hey, TIA. Not my place to tell Argentines how to live, right? (<-Steve bait ;))
I'll take the bait...

Whenever an expat "shoulds" on Argentina they are "telling" them how to live.

I would never say life is perfect in Argentina...far from it. There really is a lot of bad shit going on here, but acknowledging that is quite different from telling others how to live, but it isn't actually complaining, either.
 

orwellian

Registered
It's really simple. Some people are negative and like to complain all the time. It has nothing to do with Argentina so please don't take offense. That is why the "if you don't like my country, get the f out of here" is a bullcrap argument.
 
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