These prices are killing me

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I have to agree with the thread here, prices are going up everywhere.
On another note, and I hate to start a s***storm with Elpanada, but many of the Argentines I've spoken with believe that there is another crisis coming. I can understand how certain market instabilities could make a population, who just only emerged from the worst economic crisis in history a few years ago, a little nervious.
I hope for Argentina that my sources are wrong. I want to believe the indicators we are seeing now will move people to action if infact there a crisis coming.
I believe next year will be very telling for Argentina, and whatever happens, if we're right or wrong, I'll be here to ride it out with ya'll ;-)
 
MDPC no s***storm starting here.Those Argentines that you've spoken with are right there is another crisis coming the only questions are when and why. A great depression might hit the world and if it does then Argentina will ofcourse not be excluded from it. Those indicators that people are seeing seem far too trivial to me for me to start believing that Argentina is doomed. Argentina may have its weak points but it also has many very strong sides and while the country's growth could potentially slow down a little bit for some time I do not believe that it will take any major dive.
 
Those of us who live fulltime in argentina as expats know that prices are getting out of hand. its not only the inflation, its that high prices just dont justify what you get by living here in my opinion. Those who visit will still find the prices a bargain. i mean its much cheaper than vacationing in europe thats for sure.
I had to do some things this morning and cant describe the pollution clouds filling the street. Ive looked at houses recently in the province, outside of the city, and municipal services are horrible. i thought i was in guatemala but they called it Pilar!
So how much are we willing to pay for all the things we dont get here and the things we do get (like incredible noise and pollution because no city, not just ba, but no place even has basic standards on vehicles or transit.) the busses in BA sound, roar, scream like airplanes and they have lived like this for some time and will continue to live like this, walking through clouds of pollution with screaming busses, one after another.
Prices are going up each time i go to the same restaurant or buy the same product. packages are shrinking. the exchange rate could disappear overnight and what we buy with dollars could double in price.
Regarding social instability, you wont see a non european person on arg. tv or in ad campaigns. i know the country pretty well and know that if you dont look european, you can forget about ever working on tv or in a Retiro financial office, for example. those people who dont look european (the city, country, subways, busses are full of them) should stay where they are.
Could this class subjected to 2nd class citizenship one day revolt when their resentment builds up? as a foreigner i cant say, but who knows here. i still remember my 1st day in the country, the riots were so severe i watched several people die live on tv. Unstable prices are just the tip of the unstabiity here i would guess.
 
JG,
I agree with you. However, I don't foresee major changes in the exchange rate within the next two years or so. Buenos Aires is a heavily polluted city and not much is being done about it.
As for inflation, it is clearly out of hand, and whoever was here during the late 1980's knows what I am talking about. The minute the government attempts to stop subsidizing public transport and industrial activity (and they will eventually have to), hyper-inflation will kick in within a couple of months.
So, as a local, my advice would be, expats, do not invest you money here, it's not safe. It pains me to say it, but I've seen all of this before.
 
Prices are going up everywhere. In the States they feature it regularly on the news. They say milk there is going to be $4 a gallon (is that 4 litres? So 3 pesos a litre) by summer. There they are also using the same ploy as here -- the price stays the same but the size of what you're getting shrinks.
I just read today that the price of buying real estate in London rises by 50 pounds a day.
Prices are going up everywhere. If the price doesn't go up, the quality/quantity goes down.
It's not just foreigners complaining -- maybe it's just that your group of Argentine friends don't complain. All i know is that it's pretty much the only subject of discussion amongst the locals that I know.
 
This is a very timely update as it relates to what others think is a contributing factor to the ever constant increase/ inflation( in everyday prices) in Buenos Aires.
Remember a few threads ago someone ( whose name shall be left un spoken) said that the taxi driver thought inflation was caused by the tourists :)?
Last night there was this ABC feature story about how for the last 3 year US baby boomers who are thinking of retiring in the next 5 to 10 years are not considering any other place ( Argentina was knocked off their list 2 years ago) but Panama City, Panama. So in the next few years as the droves of Americans stop coming for retirement and easy life in Argentina, Panama City will now get the dollar and the Euros of the world.
Just to give a glimpse of how this can really impact Argentina's tourism industry - there are 100 towers in Panama City that are being built 75 stories or more each building, people from Europe have bought out 30 of those 100 towers. And the US reitrees are not far behind.
Panama City is the new Mecca for retirees. For even the European Seniors cannot afford to retire in Europe, and the same can be said for USA.
The places are spectacular, health care and all are included. It is a small micro city but still with the Panamanian flavor.
There was this gentleman who for $1200.00/month cannot live in Orlando Florida with his wife, but in Panama they have a nice place with housemaid, a gardener and a weekly golf trip to the country club - now that is what retirement should be.
So rest assured Argentina, after awhile, no one can blame the previously migrating USAmericans for your woes anymore. What happens in the near future should sit squarely on the shoulders of the Argentinians, whether they did anything about this present condition in their country or just wait until the s*** will hit the fan again like it did in the '80's.
It was such a refreshing story that I thought I should share it.
 
Grazie, thanks for your comments. I visited Panama two years ago and saw all the towers that have been constructed. For some time I've been reading about Panama as an attractive retirement destination. I'd be very interested in hearing from expats who have some first hand knowledge of investment in Panama. I get the impression that the government of Panama makes it pretty easy for foreigners to invest in the country. Is this so? Are there any problems transferring money to and from Panama, the US or other countries? Is it easy for Americans or Europeans to get resident visas?

Panama would seem to have a number of attractions for American retirees: its much closer to the US, the year round warm climate appeals to a lot of retires and there are a lot of expats living there - so there would be a very active expat social life/network for older people, something largely lacking in Buenos Aires. I know nothing about medical care in Panama. I doubt that it is nearly as good as what is available in Buenos Aires with private insurance but I'd like to know if it is decent. Is health insurance readily available to expat retirees?

Pericles, you mention an adjustment of the dollar/peso exchange rate. What kind of adjustment? Will the rate go to 4-1 or higher or will it drop to 2-1? If the latter occurs it seems to me that a lot of expats will pack up and leave. Prices are already high. A 'cafe doble' in Tribunales today cost me 8 pesos (every single price on the menu was covered over with stickers with updated prices!) . Yes, this is just one example of inflation but I think it's representative of what's happening. How much does a cup of coffee cost in Paris? Someone will surely tell me 25 euros but I think the truth is that the typical price is not much more than what I paid today near the court house. Something is wrong.
 
Complaints are killing me....


I am new to this forum. I am argentine. It seems to me that a lot of the people that are now complaining about the prices once came to Argentina to live a "good life" (dining, tango, going out, etc.) on a cheap budget. Things that they normally could not afford in their home countries. There are even expats who financially were not doing well back home, and decided to come here, live with less money until they got back on their feet.
Things are more expensive because, the economy is growing, hence the people in general have more money in their pocket and the local companies, many of which are foreign owned, did not invest enough so as assure that the supply of goods satisfied the demand of goods. There are also other companies, also foreign owned, who would rather sell less products at higher prices than provide more volume of goods at lower prices.
If you will see, there are more new cars in the streets, appliance stores are full, it is more difficult to get a cab, the unemployment rate is down, construction is booming, etc all of this without credit.


Consequently, the solution for the people who came to Argentine exclusively for that purpose in mind is simple. Leave and find some place else which meets your cost/benefit ratio.
Tatan


PS. By the way I did not know the expats national pastime was complaining about everything. Please remember that you came to Argentina for a reason and if you don’t like it anymore -because of the prices for example- or if it is now inconvenient because you cant find peanut butter, the solution is only a cab trip away (Ezeiza International Airport)..
 
Tatan I found your message to us very condescending . What gives you the right to tell us to go home because we dare complain?
Ive lived here many years on Argentine pesos and it is now very expensive for me to pay my bills and enjoy a meal out on the pesos I earn.
If you dont own property here and have to rent an apartment long term you will have many more problems. The avarice of some to continually rise prices is making Argentina a country of have and have nots.
 
The thing is, people keep saying there is something wrong... actually, this was all to be expected, and it's just surprising that it's only taken 5 years to happen. Kirchner's reforms post-crisis were meant to artificially lower the value of the peso and hold it there to encourage foreign investment and hopefully flood the coffers. However in the face of competition Argentina has had to continue these policies for longer than is truly healthy. They say the peso should really be at 2.10 to the dollar, not 3.10, but if this were to happen the herd may turn and run to Brazil, China, and other competitors.
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From the Economist (Feb 8, 2007)
Argentina is still a long way from a return of the hyperinflation of the 1970s and 1980s. But many economists believe that prices of goods and services not covered by price controls will rise by 13-15% this year. Nipping inflation in the bud would require a rise in interest rates and curbs on public spending, as well as letting the peso appreciate. But first there is an election to be fought. It is shaping up to be a war of numbers.
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K's government has also looked to other methods to encourage spending at home and keep inflation under control -- the most obvious being the use of Tickets. Tickets force a certain amount of money to remain circulating in the market rather than get hidden under the mattresses of the country. It also means that the government doesn't have to spend money printing money, and risk flooding the market with more pesos and seeing inflation jump.
But of course the most obvious method of keeping inflation low is to simply change the numbers on paper and pretend it doesn't exist. So far K and his team seems to think this will work. Nothing like cooking the books to give the appearance of a rosy-outlook.
After the election who knows -- the K Government economic policies were really a bandaid solution to get the economy back on track. But what works well for a few months can be detrimental after a few years.
In my opinion for longterm growth this country really has got to start investing in mining & exploration. It's ridiculous -- education here still seems to favour arts, law, and accounting, when really they have got to get into engineering -- particularly in oil, gas, and mining.
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On a side note:
I think that the constant spitting out of 100 peso notes from bank machines is a mechanism to encourage spending -- what do you think? People don't use credit cards here the way you do at home, and usually cash makes you more aware of your purchases and more careful. However if you're always given 100 peso notes, you're more likely to spend beyond what you were thinking, since you've got extra in your wallet etc. Do you think this is another method to encourage spending?
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Also, for those that don;t subscribe:
The Economist's June Report:
Either Nestor Kirchner, the incumbent president of the Partido Justicialista (PJ, or Peronists), or his wife Cristina, a popular senator, is well-placed to win the presidential election of October 28th 2007. Mr Kirchner has increased his influence over the bulk of the Peronist party, which has a majority in Congress, while successfully courting sections of the opposition and obtaining the support of two-thirds of provincial governors to form a broader political alliance. If he (or she) wins, governability will be robust at least until the 2009 congressional elections. A populist stance on major economic policy issues will bolster their support, although the Economist Intelligence Unit expects this to decline gradually from current high levels once the economy eventually slows, potentially undermining their position. Mr Kirchner’s tendency to concentrate power in his first term will heighten concerns about government effectiveness and transparency under the next Kirchner administration.
On economic policy, the Kirchner government represents a departure from the free-market orthodoxies of the 1990s. It will maintain a more interventionist role for the state, especially regarding infrastructure and energy. Policymakers will target a competitive exchange rate to support growth in the tradeable sector of the economy. Unorthodox measures, such as price controls, will be used to achieve policy goals, at least until the 2007 election and quite possibly in 2008. We assume there will be a shift towards a tighter fiscal and monetary policy thereafter in order to curb inflation, although there is considerable uncertainty over the timing and extent of tightening. However, relative price misalignments and other distortions pose a threat to the sustainability of Argentina’s current growth cycle. Having repaid the US$9.5bn owed to the IMF in January 2006, the government can ignore the Fund’s recommendations, meaning little progress in pending structural reforms, such as tax reform, public banks reform and a new fiscal relationship between the central government and the provinces.
The economy has rebounded from its deep recession in 1999-2002, stimulated by the devaluation of the peso and high commodity prices. However, the closing of the output gap, bottlenecks and the scarcity of financing will slow GDP growth from 2008 onward. Inflows of foreign direct investment (FDI) will average around 2% of GDP, although uncertainty over government policy will persist. The outlook is for a slowdown in GDP growth towards Argentina’s annual potential rate (estimated at 4%) and a gradual decline in fiscal surpluses. Even though public debt ratios will still ease, concerns over long-term fiscal sustainability will linger, alongside little prospect of a sustainable reform of the system of revenue-sharing and the still unresolved issue of US$25bn in“hold-outs”who did not participated in the 2005 debt exchange.
 
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