These prices are killing me

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Granadaiscool, read the statistics. And by the way Argentina does have an industry. Yes, it’s not developed and one of the reasons for that is because during almost 12 years there was no logical reason -from a business perspective- to invest because it was less expensive to import than to manufacture. Chile is not the example to follow.


Grazie, I don't know where to begin considering that you were all over the place and to be honest you kind of talked about issues that went beyond my original post. I did not: bully, badger, or "dis" anyone. Also, I did not restrict anyone's right to criticize Argentina. Everybody is free to do as they wish. You can look at Argentina however you want.


I did not argue it to death, you exaggerate. Thank you for teaching me and the rest of the forum on the art of debate. And the only reason I referred to elpanada's nickname as stupid, was because he was accusing me -I suppose in a jokingly fashion- about being xenophobe. I responded accordingly. Anyway, if I offended elpanada, surely he can defend himself. Please stop with the psycobabble and relax.


The issue was expatriates complaining about inflation because it affected their pocket. So let's try to stick to that subject. And it though it affects everyone alike, many of the expatriates came to this country to take advantage of the exchange rate at one time and now complain only because it affects their budget.


"Sebastian, have you ever considered that Asia is now the source of dirt cheap labor and though not a moral thing to do - it is just maybe, just maybe because partial or fully owned Argentinian company owners are driven by greed and want to maximize profit? When you are a COO and the board of directors of a company says raise profits by 23% this year or your are outta here, you go to the most dispensable part of any company and that is labor. Greed and cold hearted business dollar and cent decisions like this perpetrate the vicious cycle of slave labor


I know that Asia is the source of slave labor and I know that many -not all- Argentine businessmen are greedy and seek out as their maximum goal to maximize profit, as is the case in other countries. But Grazie, again that's not my point. My point was that the exchange rate -in response to syngirl's comment's regarding the exchange rate- was a good decision so as to assure the growth of the argentine industry and consequently to minimize the unemployment rate. That's my point. And I don’t agree with your justification for using slave labor. Evidently we do not share the same scale of values.


I honestly don’t know where you get your information, but Argentine businessmen do not have go to foreign countries for cheap labor, unlike the US with the their mexican counterparts, legally they are welcomed and give them, free health care, free education, free college education, etc. With the 3:1 rate, the unemployment has gone down. What would happen to the argentine labor market if the exchange rate was 2: 1. I don't care if you are the CEO of Pricewaterhouse, please explain what you will do with these people without work?


Bowl of Rice= Metaphor. Check this website out


http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=32


Henry B, in any case if the peso is kept artificially low and you took 2,10: 1 exchange rate, then Argentine would probably rank higher. Also, that’s only of the variables that are factored in to calculate where a country ranks.


JG, finally someone who sees that I am not being disrespectful and I do agree with you that there is a major quality issue with regards to some products. This has to with the fact that Argentine businesses failed to invest during the 90’s, and continue to do so now when they have a captive domestic market. That is another issue.


Bigbadwolf, I am glad we agree.


Ramon. Get over it. Nobody insulted you. Rents increasing, prices going up..supply and demand. I did not blame tourists for inflation. Do you read what I write? I said inflation is a major problem. Nobody is trying to create Buenos Aires, London and/or Paris, and the increase in property value has nothing to do with inflation.
 
"TatanBsAs" said:
Henry B, in any case if the peso is kept artificially low and you took 2,10: 1 exchange rate, then Argentine would probably rank higher. Also, that’s only of the variables that are factored in to calculate where a country ranks.
When a company produce goods for 1000 pesos, they count it not as 320 dollars, as it would be according to official exchange rate, but as, say, 900 dollars. Because they think that's what is actual purchasing power of 1000 pesos (transportation is cheap, beef is cheap, long term rent is cheap etc).Let's put it this way. GDP per capita for the USA that they state (where there is no this adjustment) is 39 thousands, for Argentina 13 thousands. From 100 people that I know in the states, at least 80 make more than 39k per year, from 100 locals that I know in Argentina only 2 make more that 13,000 USD per year. Both countries operate more or less according to the same principles. That means that their 13k figure is way off. Difference with Chile in other parameters is negligible.
 
If I understand Tatan correctly, the writer is saying that the decision to devalue and maintain a 3-1 exchange rate was a good thing. That may or may not be true. I won't argue it. What about the issue of inflation? Does Tatan think this is just a nusiance that everyone must support or is there some fundamental problem with the economic system that is causing high inflation?
 
Hi, try to read this article (in spanish) that cover all the subjects in the topic from an argentine view of course.
 
A few random thoughts from a soon-to-be expat
Coming from NYC, the prices in Bs As (thanks to both a favorable exchange rate & a lack of sticker shock;) ) seem reasonable. However, if I were earning pesos, I can't imagine how difficult it would be as the salaries in Argentina definitely don't seem to be in line with what things cost.
Inflation is rising at a rate of almost 10% per year in Arg (and would be well over 10% if the gov't had not instituted price controls on certain products). That's a very scary figure.
Argentina is seeing a fairly explosive growth in tourism (due to that exchange rate) and yes, I do think it has affected rental prices, etc.
I have had several conversations with people in Latin American markets at investment banks here & I will say that all of them have mentioned that they think there is a very good chance that there will be another economic crisis in the next 3 years unless someone does something about the skyrocketing inflation rate.
And finally, increase in housing, food costs, etc are not an Argentine problem. Most major metropolitan cities are facing the same issues. Housing costs in NYC have increased DRAMATICALLY over the last 5 years - in fact, this year, the average price for an apt in NYC was over a million dollars.
Everyone is feeling the pinch....
 
The problem with argentina is simple those in power want to keep making money and it doesn't matter if the country suffers.Period.Argentinians like to be fooled that there country is "so" great you can hear there arrogance everytime they talk about argentina. Until the people wake up and realize there argentina is a wrecked third-world country in need of help and that it is no better than even the poorest of nations, nothing will ever change. They will continue walking around saying " isn't our country the best? " or like the stupid signs around the city " buenos aires cada vez que te veo te quiero mas" makes me want to vomit. I have never seen people like this in any other country.Listen to this. One time I bought a pair of shoes and came home didn't like them wanted to take them back for another. They didn't have another one I liked so I figured I would get my money back, LOL yah right! The guy even had the nerve to say " no store in the WORLD will you give your money back" a shining example of a retarded argentine. I said to him " EVERYWHERE in the world EXCEPT argentina will give your money back." and after that the best he could come up with was " well I havent been to any other country" does anyone else see the stupidity of the argentina logic?? they think there right when haven't the slightest clue! Thats why the argentines like tatan dont surprise me in fact I laugh when I see them.
That my friends is why argentina is the way it is, arrogant people who have nothing to be proud in but are still proud.to all the argentines who come here to defend your argentina, if you cant talk with out being biased against everyone then its better not to say a thing.
 
"MikeBA" said:
The problem with argentina is simple those in power want to keep making money and it doesn't matter if the country suffers.
Period.
Argentinians like to be fooled that there country is "so" great you can hear there arrogance everytime they talk about argentina. Until the people wake up and realize there argentina is a wrecked third-world country in need of help and that it is no better than even the poorest of nations, nothing will ever change. They will continue walking around saying " isn't our country the best? " or like the stupid signs around the city " buenos aires cada vez que te veo te quiero mas" makes me want to vomit.
I have never seen people like this in any other country.
Listen to this. One time I bought a pair of shoes and came home didn't like them wanted to take them back for another. They didn't have another one I liked so I figured I would get my money back, LOL yah right! The guy even had the nerve to say " no store in the WORLD will you give your money back" a shining example of a retarded argentine. I said to him " EVERYWHERE in the world EXCEPT argentina will give your money back." and after that the best he could come up with was " well I havent been to any other country" does anyone else see the stupidity of the argentina logic?? they think there right when haven't the slightest clue!
Thats why the argentines like tatan dont surprise me in fact I laugh when I see them.

That my friends is why argentina is the way it is, arrogant people who have nothing to be proud in but are still proud.
to all the argentines who come here to defend your argentina, if you cant talk with out being biased against everyone then its better not to say a thing.
If you blame any and everbody but yourself it makes you feel good


 
Well put, MikeBA. I couldn't agree with you more.
 
I can’t really argue with what Mike has said. The story about the shoe store salesman is a classic. There is a tendency here to make assumptions about the rest of the world without actually having seen the rest of the world. Without living in the US and experiencing a society in which consumer rights are given importance, the salesman could not understand that shops in the US routinely return money for purchases that are taken back. To be fair to the salesman, his source of information is TV and the media in general – all; largely negative toward the US. Even the US media is critical of the US (Americans love to air their dirty linen) so what can you expect of someone who has never travelled abroad? He just doesn’t know that consumer rights are strong in some parts of the world. The arrogance comes in when people like that assume that they know everything and refuse to accept the fact that they don’t when confronted with information that contradicts their preconceptions.

Citigirl, inflation is much higher than 10% - more like 20% or higher. Just go to the supermarket and you see weekly increases. I monitor certain items to get a sense of the inflation. A jar of locally produced jam, for example, went from $7,50 to $8 to $8,50 in two weeks. I find this typical of supermarket items. Health insurance was up 23% earlier this year. I could go on and on. People who live here, especially those without dollar incomes, know what I am talking about. Citigirl is right that salaries are low. I wonder if she has any idea just how low. How about $300 - $500 dollars a month? Most people are not making any more.
 
"sergio" said:
I can’t really argue with what Mike has said. The story about the shoe store salesman is a classic. There is a tendency here to make assumptions about the rest of the world without actually having seen the rest of the world. Without living in the US and experiencing a society in which consumer rights are given importance, the salesman could not understand that shops in the US routinely return money for purchases that are taken back. To be fair to the salesman, his source of information is TV and the media in general – all; largely negative toward the US. Even the US media is critical of the US (Americans love to air their dirty linen) so what can you expect of someone who has never travelled abroad? He just doesn’t know that consumer rights are strong in some parts of the world. The arrogance comes in when people like that assume that they know everything and refuse to accept the fact that they don’t when confronted with information that contradicts their preconceptions.

Citigirl, inflation is much higher than 10% - more like 20% or higher. Just go to the supermarket and you see weekly increases. I monitor certain items to get a sense of the inflation. A jar of locally produced jam, for example, went from $7,50 to $8 to $8,50 in two weeks. I find this typical of supermarket items. Health insurance was up 23% earlier this year. I could go on and on. People who live here, especially those without dollar incomes, know what I am talking about. Citigirl is right that salaries are low. I wonder if she has any idea just how low. How about $300 - $500 dollars a month? Most people are not making any more.

3 times 500 dollar is still 1500 dollar, and you should be able to run a decent household on that. That´s why children stay untill there late 20´s at home and work 7-8 hours a day during the day and go to school at night
This is difference offcourse for an expat living on an Argentine salary living alone.
 
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