Thinking Of Moving From Us To Ba As Students

Hey ya'll! Sorry for the long response..but here ya go, the perspective of an American yanqui still media perdida (in a good way) en el sistema universitario publico!

I am finishing up with a (very long) Master's at UBA in Economics and did my undergraduate degree in the US in Economics at a public university with a semester study abroad stint in some senior-level courses at UBA and teaching assistant at an Argentine private university, so I feel qualified to talk about studying economics here from a yanqui perspective. I have nothing but love and the utmost respect for the brilliant…repeat, brilliant, dedicated hardworking UBA professors I studied under (regardless of the sometimes hell they unintentionally put me through, e.g. trying to finish an Eviews program following the Johansen Cointegration method for Argentine macroeconomic variables on Christmas Day while everyone else enjoyed the pool). I also am currently taking a course at Universidad Nacional de La Plata.

I think Matiasba's precaution is a good one to take into account and NOT an outlier. Think: I may end up studying undergrad for 10 years making several hundred dollars a month working full time and busting my ass to do so. I would never discourage you (here I am still), but you should make an informed decision. The graduation rate for undergrads who start in economics in UBA is well below 10% if I don't recall, and I once asked what is the purpose of having a tax-payer funded public university whose degrees very few argentinos can complete for whatever reason. The response I got is it depends on what you think education is for: is it to increase the knowledge and capacity of the country's citizens or to hand out degrees. You need to consider what your goals are: do you want a PhD in economics or a less expensive degree certificate to get a middle class job in business? If it is the latter, I think you should think twice. Looking back, I sometimes wish I had done more of a realistic cost-benefit analysis.

The main difference between the undergrad university economics in the US and Argentina (at least at the flagship Economics Colleges which are the only ones I am familiar with) is that a BA or BS here is actually a licenciatura, which is why econ students coming out of undergrad have more specialized education in economics and more semesters of math. In the US, you have 2 years of general studies plus only 2 years of specialization in economics full time. In Economics in UBA, you have 1 year CBC (Ciclo Basico Comun) or technically Primer Tramo in Economicas, which is general studies, plus a minimum of 4 years of just economics courses, which go way beyond what you see in an average undergrad career. For example, I luckily started economics having switched from engineering in the US, so I had the four semesters calculus, which I needed for the Maestria. This tells me there is more required math as well as econometrics for undergrads.

The other main difference in economics is textbooks. Si bien, they use "manuales" (textbooks) or compiled chapters of "manuales" purchased for 3 bucks at your local copy center, there are also a lot of academic papers. In the US, when a prof says, the exam is Chapters 3-5 of Hal Varian Intro to Microeconomics (love that book!), I know to have read the chapter, understood all the formulas and graphs, memorized them, and done the practice problems. Here, you have 5-6 times as much assigned reading, but it is not meant to be read always formula by formula. I found out about this culture shock when I asked a prof about an equation in the appendix of a Krugman paper, and he said that it wasn't to read formula by formula. It is up to the student to navigate through the reading and subject, deciding which parts of text are critical and what to skim over.

Even though the university is free, prepare for a really long stint of studying. If you kick your own ass and are a high performing student in the US, expect at least 6 years, minimum. Think: how will I pay for this? You will not be eligible for any public student loans or grants through the US (or Argentina) because both are not US Educational institutions through the Dept of Education. Most students have to work and study and in fact Argentine businesses seem to prefer these professionals, but entry level full-time "junior" positions pay just a FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH if you are lucky, which is nearly impossible to survive on because costs here are comparable to a mid-size US city or town. Teaching English might be a better option because at least its part time and flexible hours, but still you will only bank a few hundred bucks (and if you are a US law-abiding tax payer as I am, paying your 15% US Social Security taxes in dollars will turn out costing you 30% of your already low salary because of the exchange rate gap in the official Treasury Exchange Rate you calculate taxes on, and living abroad you are not eligible for the EITC). Depending on what you do with your degree/education (i.e. not go on to do a PhD), it would be about 20 times easier to study economics here in one of the local private universities and not that costly in terms of US dollars. You would be able to finish it up on time, which would make financial planning easier. Still, a degree like this will be worth less in the US, but with your bilingual skills you will still be just as valuable in the workforce here.
 

Excelent post!
Only one thing: there are economics taught very similar to US universities: Di Tella, from what I heard certainly not easy, although very different from UBA, considering the overall training, as you said, with statistics, classic economy, CBC, etc, UCEMA, I heard this is very good, and UDESA (Universidad de San Andres, in San Isidro). These ones could be at the same level as UBA, the rest, not a chance.
 
Good call Matias. DiTella and San Andres are great (many students looking to study their PhD in the US do a Masters in San Andres), but if the original posters are looking to save money on university expenses and won't have access to US student loans and grants, they may not be the best option. There are equivalently priced public universities in the US.

Don't feel bad Matias but I think we BOTH missed the joke...I face-palmed when I realized the question about studying econ here was not about actually studying econ but a good-humored quip.

I don't think people were, but I would warn about extrapolating "quality of current Argentine economy" onto "quality of Argentine economic education." Argentina economists are professors in all of the top universities in the US. Just heard a talk from this prof last week which honestly went way over my head (not hard to do). Economic policy depends on who makes the decisions, but lively economic problems make for very serious, passionate students who go on to become innovative academics all over the world. Also, the most intractable, economic problems don't have an easy solution, which by definition makes them intractable.

But yea, yea, I do get the joke and do agree, that Kicillof's Keyne's scholarship did not necessarily best qualify him for a role as CFO of an airline.
 
The problem is that some people still thinks economy is an exact science, while it is in fact a Social science. It has a lot of politics, a lot of social aspects, involves the State as a product of the entire society...
 
Matias, I agree, but I certainly haven't run into many economists at UBA or UNLP or really any people who do actual full-on degrees in economics who think that economics is an exact science (except for maybe from some institutions you might guess). I always say those who preach that the market solves everything is because they never went past Microeconomics 1, some introductory course on the way to getting their degree in Administracion de Empresas. You just gotta open, say Mas-Colell or Varian 2 or any micro textbook with more advanced math than the simplified supply demand curve LINES. In other words, I totally freaking agree with you, and the pretty mainstream economic canon does, too. Hell, Argentina even has Anne Kreuger on its side now! Imaginate!! :)
 
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