tourist visa not renewed in Colonia!

[sesamosinsal]

I don't know the details of the decreto, but I highly doubt it's being used to target the gringos. The whole Villa Soldati incident might clue us in to who is being targeted by any new immigration policies.

Plan B for permatourists: 90 days in Argentina, 90 days in Chile, 90 days in Brazil, and 90 more days in Argentina... and Repeat. Problem solved! But see, if I were Argentina, I'd probably prefer to have them spending their cash in Argentina rather than Chile or Brazil.

 

[AkBill]

If Argentina were to become as efficient as Germany over night and everything was enforced exactly how it should be, what is the rule exactly ? That you can stay 6 months out of every 12 without being 'illegal' ?

 

[French jurist]

Indeed Argentinean taxes are a big thing to consider regarding citizenship.

Another argument about not going to Colonia : it interrupts every time your two years continuous stay if you were to decide to apply for citizenship at some point (but maybe is this not an absolute requirement ?)

 

[citygirl]

Akbill - that is the crux of the issue. Yes and No. The law states that one can receive a 90 day visa & renew once in country for another 90 days. So after 180 days, you must leave the country. However, as there is no maximum stay per year written in the law (for example, in Brasil it clearly states you can't exceed 180 days per year in Brasil) there has always been this loophole that many have taken advantage of and gave rise to "perma-tourists". So people would leave after 180 days and then return the following day. The idea was that they were following the letter of the law, if not its spirit.

Of course, people should factor in that after 180 days, they "should" be paying taxes in Argentina.

Bradleyhale - thanks for holding off my public execution

 

[French jurist]

If Argentina were to become as efficient as Germany over night and everything was enforced exactly how it should be, what is the rule exactly ? That you can stay 6 months out of every 12 without being 'illegal' ?

That's not an hypothesis, that's science-fiction Sir !

And like said CityGirl, no limit is mentionned in the Law, which is good and bad at the same time (they would even be able to decide you are not a turist after your first week here if we push the logic to its fullest extent)

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I'd still say that going to Colonia is a bit more legal than just staying illegally. I'm not really interested in whether or not the 180-day limit has been substantiated (Read again: I don't care). However, getting an immigration official to give you a stamp authorizing you for another 90 days -- albeit a loophole -- is certainly more legal than just staying in the country illegally. After all, the government via its representative is giving you its permission to remain another 90 days. So, can we put citygirl's public execution on hold for the time being?

You are wrong, listen to me, I am a lawyer, law changed, there isn´t any loophole now, look:

ARTICULO 61.- Cuando se verifique que un extranjero hubiere desnaturalizado los motivos que autorizaron su ingreso al territorio argentino o permaneciera en éste vencido el plazo de permanencia acordado,

So, both situations are equally illegal. It is useless.

This is clear like water and here is where citigirl is 100% wrong.

So, a legal advice is:
a) Overstay;
b) Go for residency;
c) Go for citizenship.

Regards

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[steveinbsas]

Indeed Argentinean taxes are a big thing to consider regarding citizenship.

Taxation may also be a "big thing" for some temporary residents as well if migraciones is now requiring those with the visa rentista to be "in country" 180 days of the year for the renewal of their visas.

Another argument about not going to Colonia : it interrupts every time your two years continuous stay if you were to decide to apply for citizenship at some point (but maybe is this not an absolute requirement ?)

I think Bajo_cero2 wrote that leaving the country during the two year period does not interrupt the "residency" but I can see how this might be open to interpretation by the judge (if you don't have a DNI and are gone for extended periods). Those who have been making the day trips to Colonia for a couple years are probably OK, but I agree that it's pointless (if not counterproductive) to continue to go there.

When I submitted my "application" for citizenship yesterday the woman who filled out the form asked for the date of my first entry into Argentina (it's in my DNI as well as my passport but they did not ask for the latter). I believe that is the start date for the two year residency requirement for everyone applying for citizenship, whether they have a DNI or not (my temporary residency was granted almost six moths after my first arrival and that date is also in my DNI).

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I don't know the details of the decreto, but I highly doubt it's being used to target the gringos. The whole Villa Soldati incident might clue us in to who is being targeted by any new immigration policies.

Wrong:

I have explained in advance that this was going to happens.

http://baexpats.org/expat-life/10765-new-rentista-visa-requirements-6.html
http://baexpats.org/expat-life/10781-changes-permatourists.html

The decrete 616-2010 changed the argentinian migration policy. Before that it was focus on the 5.000.000 ilegal immigrants from border countries. Now that about 75% of them are legals they are focus on you guys.
So, the trick about going to Colonia is over.

The Argentinian immigration policy changed 100%. Deportation for Mercosur citizens is forbiden by law.

After some months of feedback, I know they are enforzing it with Chinese and Dominicans.

However, let´s be reallistic, the risk regarding to be illegal for Europeans and Americans has nothing to do with a deportation order, it is regarding corrupted police or immigration agents. How long is it going to take until they realize they can deny your entry and change their mind after a bribe? And they wont be happy with 20 dollars.

At Ezeiza Airport, when Chinese arrive, they put them in another line until all the other turist are gone (until there are not any witnesses). Then they ask between 1000 up to 5000 dollars to stamp their passport or they deny their entry.

On december they asked too much money and 4 chinese refuses to pay, so they try to force them to get into the airplane (this is illegal), so the chinese fought back. The immigration agents and the 4 chinese expert in kung fu finished the day at a federal court, all of them under a federal criminal investigation.

I don´t know how the case finished because the familly of the Chinese immigrants didn´t hire me to avoid the deportation.

Plan B for permatourists: 90 days in Argentina, 90 days in Chile, 90 days in Brazil, and 90 more days in Argentina... and Repeat. Problem solved! But see, if I were Argentina, I'd probably prefer to have them spending their cash in Argentina rather than Chile or Brazil.

Too complex.
Plan b:
1) Stay illegaly;
2) Apply for residency;
3) Apply for citizenship.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

If Argentina were to become as efficient as Germany over night and everything was enforced exactly how it should be, what is the rule exactly ? That you can stay 6 months out of every 12 without being 'illegal' ?

There are 2 legal systems working in parallel:
1) Immigration law
2) Citizenship law

1) Immigration law:
You can stay 3 months.
The first renewal is not automatic, the agent can deny it.

Residence permission:
a) Rentista
b) Pensionado
c) Marriage or having children
d) Working contract

2) Citizenship law:
a) Inhabitants have the right to live in this territory no matter their legal status.
b) Inhabitants are the people who is living in the Argentinian territory.
c) Turist is the person who is not involved in our social life no matter what the stamp says in your passport.

Regards

 

[steveinbsas]

The links in Bajo-cero2's previous post (#48) only direct to the home page (at least that's what happend when I clicked on them).

These go directly to the threads:

New rentista visa requirements

Changes for "permatourists"