tourist visa not renewed in Colonia!

[sesamosinsal]

I agree, if the person working at the border on behalf of argentina immigration gives you another 90 day stamp, with a new date by which you have to leave the country, how is it illegal? It's their fault decision to give you another stamp

Of course in argentina anything can happen

But from some kind of moral point of view getting a new 90 day stamp is much more legal than just overstaying permanently, in my opinion

Precisely. It's up to the Argentine immigration official to determine whether or not you're a tourist or not. If they fail to make the determination that you're not a tourist and they subsequently give you another 90 days, how is that illegal? It's up to the National Directorate for Immigration to enforce the 180 day rule (if it exists), as well as other laws.

I say that people stay legal by being authorized by the Argentine government to be in the country. Pursue citizenship or residency with legal beagle Bajo Cero on a valid tourist visa.

 

[Liam3494]

This old chestnut comes up all the time - The fact of the matter, whatever our lawyer friend says, is that there is NO LAW in Argentina regarding the so called 180 days in a year for tourists. The bottom line is that the 90 day tourist Visa is LEGAL, no matter how many times you come and go. Scaremongerers can tell anecdotes, or advise that breaking the law is OK (i.e. overstaying), and then you can apply for citizenship....

The truth of the matter is that, if you leave and return, you get a new 90 day Visa - And then you are LEGALLY in Argentina. Obviously, if you are here on a tourist visa and are working, then you are breaking the law, but that's another matter.....

 

[John.St]

The fact of the matter, whatever our lawyer friend says, is that there is NO LAW in Argentina regarding the so called 180 days in a year for tourists. The bottom line is that the 90 day tourist Visa is LEGAL, no matter how many times you come and go.

We can make one of two assumptions:
1. The jurists who wrote the immigration law didn't have a clue to what they were doing.
2. The jurists who wrote the law knew exactly what they were doing.

I feel sure assumption 2. is valid, while 1. isn't.

When they wrote "180 días corridos" and not "por año" or "cada 12 meses" or something similar, they meant exactly that. It is unreasonable to assume they did not fully understand what a year is or what 12 months are. No doubt they had also been studying immigration laws from other countries.

As for Decreto 616/2010 - as I understand it - as a decrete it adds specifics to, but cannot overrule, the law - and ARTICULO 61 in the decrete must be understood in this context and also in connection with:

Decreto 616/2010, ARTICULO 24.
a) Turistas: quienes ingresen con propósito de descanso o esparcimiento, con plazo de permanencia de hasta TRES (3) meses, prorrogables por otro período similar.

This specifically states, that you are a tourist if you are here to relax or for recreation, it does not exclude a very long stay and it's purpuse - as I understand it - is to exclude as tourists those who work, study, etc.

As I understand the law + decrete, they tell us that if you are here with the sole purpose of "relaxing and recreation" you can stay for 180 days in two periods of 3 months each, the last of these legalized by an extension (prórroga) of the visa. After 180 days/2x3 months you must leave Argentina.

Neither law or decrete even hint, that you cannot enter Argentina after having left her for as little as one second. As far as I can tell, neither law nor decrete limits the time a tourist can stay per year, as long as their sole purpose is "relaxing and recreation" and as long as they leave, then enter, the country as specified.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ley de Migraciones - nueva - Ley 25.871
B.O. 21/01/04 MIGRACIONES Ley 25.871 - (PLN) Política Migratoria Argentina. Derechos y
obligaciones de los extranjeros. ...
Sancionada: Diciembre 17 de 2003. Promulgada de Hecho: Enero 20 de 2004.

ARTICULO 20. - Los extranjeros serán admitidos para ingresar y permanecer en el país .... Su validez será de hasta ciento ochenta (180) días corridos, pudiendo ser renovables hasta la resolución de la admisión solicitada, ...

ARTICULO 24. - Los extranjeros que ingresen al país como "residentes transitorios" podrán ser admitidos en algunas de las siguientes subcategorías:
15.Turistas; (16. - 22. list more cathegories)

- - - - - - - - - -
Ley de Migraciones - Decreto 616/2010

ARTICULO 24.- Los extranjeros que ingresen al país como "residentes transitorios" podrán ser admitidos en las subcategorías establecidas por el artículo 24 de la Ley Nº 25.871, con los siguientes alcances:
a) Turistas: quienes ingresen con propósito de descanso o esparcimiento, con plazo de permanencia de hasta TRES (3) meses, prorrogables por otro período similar.

ARTICULO 61.- Cuando se verifique que un extranjero hubiere desnaturalizado los motivos que autorizaron su ingreso al territorio argentino o permaneciera en éste vencido el plazo de permanencia acordado, la DIRECCION NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES lo intimará a fin de que, en un plazo que no exceda de TREINTA (30) días, se presente a regularizar su situación migratoria debiendo acompañar los documentos necesarios para ello. A tal efecto, se lo notificará por escrito informándole, de un modo comprensible, las consecuencias que le deparará mantenerse en la situación migratoria advertida.

Sources:
Ley de Migraciones - Ley 25.871: http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/pdf_varios/residencias/ley_25871.pdf
Decreto 616/2010: http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/pdf_varios/residencias/Decreto_616_2010.pdf

 

[sesamosinsal]

Obviously, the tourist visa wasn't meant to be used by people to live here permanently. I don't think anyone is arguing that. However, it isn't up to a person using the tourist visa to enforce Argentina's laws; that's Argentina's responsibility. If Argentina doesn't want to enforce its 180-day policy, fine. Clearly, overstaying the visa is illegal, as the person who stays illegally is fined. On the flip side, no one to our knowledge has been deported or fined for staying more than 180-days a year -- including myself.

Therefore, if people are worried about being illegal or legal (in other words: Having the Government of Argentina's permission to remain on Argentine soil), I think the option is clear: Jump the border every 90 days. Conversely, if people are worrying about getting refused at the border or deported, then perhaps their only option is to remain in Argentine territory without the permission of the government.

I personally do not advocate staying in Argentina without the DNM's permission. It might make your life hell if you try to apply for other visas. Argentina may not stamp anything ugly in your passport, but let me assure you that consular agents do know how to do math.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I find it amusing that the "legal" advice from a lawyer is to be "illegal." *sigh* haha

Well, this is because if your overstay you become an inhabitant, not an illegal. And as an inhabitant you have the right to live here. But if you go to Colonia to renew the I-94 just for feeling "legal" you jeopady your self because they might deny your entry.

As I quoted, with the new law, being a perma-tourist is to "desnaturalizar" (to use improperly) the I-94 and this is an illegal action. So, I just explained that you are not more legal at all doing it, that´s why it is a waste of time, money and an innecesary jeopardy.

In this country, there is not such a category as "illegals". You can do something illegal but you are innocent until you are sentences by a judge who declares you are guilty. This is the same. In Argentinian territory they must give you an ultimatum, you have 30 days to legalize yourself. At the border they might deny your entry. Is that clear?

Regards

I suggest you read the threads I quoted because it is properly explained there.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Therefore, if people are worried about being illegal or legal (in other words: Having the Government of Argentina's permission to remain on Argentine soil), I think the option is clear: Jump the border every 90 days.

I disagree. They should apply for residence or citizenship if they are concerned about their legal status. As I explained, to use improperly the I -94 is illegal.

Conversely, if people are worrying about getting refused at the border or deported, then perhaps their only option is to remain in Argentine territory without the permission of the government.

This is one option, but an smarter one is to apply for a residence or for citizenship.

OI personally do not advocate staying in Argentina without the DNM's permission. It might make your life hell if you try to apply for other visas. Argentina may not stamp anything ugly in your passport, but let me assure you that consular agents do know how to do math.

You shouldn´t apply for visas at the consulate. If you are American you can come without a visa and to apply for it here.

You are asumming to many ideas as they are facts. They aren´t.

Regards

 

[sesamosinsal]

Well, be an inhabitant with a valid tourist visa. By overstaying a tourist visa, a foreigner is on Argentine soil without the government's permission. If everyone who set foot on Argentine soil deserved to live here, they wouldn't bother giving out tourist visas in the first place. So, respect the visa.

When I say that applying for visas might be hell if one overstays his/her visa, I'm not talking about Argentina. I'm talking about other countries. Let's say a Polish tourist goes to Buenos Aires for a year and takes your irresponsible advice to just overstay the visa. The tourist pays the fine and then goes back to Poland. Then, the Polish tourist decides to go to the United States. Given that Poland is not in the U.S. Visa Waiver Program, she/he must apply for a visa. Although Argentina didn't put anything ugly in the tourist's passport, U.S. consular agents know how to do math. In fact, looking at how a person handled other visas in the U.S. or other countries is a pretty decent indicator of how they might handle a new one. There is no way that the U.S. (and perhaps other countries) would give a visa to someone who overstayed another visa, be it from the U.S. or anywhere else.

We both agree that the tourist visa is not for long-term residency in Argentina. However, Argentina is supposed to enforce its laws. If Argentina decides not to enforce its laws, so be it. The laws are only as good as those who enforce them. Thus, as far as I'm concerned, being a permatourist isn't illegal until they decide to enforce the law that makes it so. Furthermore, if any of the people on this forum have any plans to apply for visas in other countries (especially those who must apply for tourist visas), your advice to overstay the visa here is utter stupidity.

 

[Liam3494]

For the sake of my mind - let alone everyone elses who is so sad that they spend all day reading these sites..... IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to leave the country every 90 days and come back, thereby gaining a new 90 day entry TOURIST Visa. There is no law in this country that says that you cannot do this - It is not that Argentina do not enforce the law. THERE IS NO LAW in the first place.

It is ILLEGAL to overstay your 90 day Visa, that bit is simple, and if you are working on a tourist Visa, that is illegal, but if you are simply enjoying life, bumming around,chilling out, staying in BsAs with a bit of money in your pocket, and acting as tourist, you are not Breaking any laws by leaving the country and coming back every 90 days. Seriously.....

 

[ndcj]

Although Argentina didn't put anything ugly in the tourist's passport, U.S. consular agents know how to do math. In fact, looking at how a person handled other visas in the U.S. or other countries is a pretty decent indicator of how they might handle a new one. There is no way that the U.S. (and perhaps other countries) would give a visa to someone who overstayed another visa, be it from the U.S. or anywhere else.

I think you have this entirely upside down.

Having a gazillion Argentinian residencia transitoria stamps in your passport from multiple Colonia runs is what is likely to alert a US consular officer that you don't mind at least bending the rules.

Remember that if you arrived on a tourist visa and gained residency, you don't have anything stamped in your passport, so the theoretical US consular officer couldn't draw a conclusion one way or the other if didn't have stamps every 90 days to spell it out!

 

[John.St]

Argentina has a number of treaties for the avoidance of international double taxation.

You find them here: http://www.afip.gob.ar/institucional/convenios.asp