tourist visa not renewed in Colonia!

[Bajo_cero2]

As for the rest - well, citizenship is never something I would take on lightly. Especially since the majority of those I've seen here are not intending to spend their lives in Argentina and citizenship would have tax and other obligations. YMMV.

Can you be more specific please?

Because buy/selling real state tax is cheaper being a citizenship.

Airplane tickets too. They aren´t taxes, I know

What are the other obligations? To vote? We don´t have conscription duties.

I am polish too, I am not planning to live in Poland but I prefer to be a citizen when I go to Europe because I am a resposible person. I can work legally there if I want. And been a citizen I have rights that are automaticly enforzable by police.

I don´t understand why you advice people to remain illegal and to jeopardy themselves. Are you an anarchist?

If they have the chance, they might apply for residence or citizenship. Residence is cheaper ($600) but requirements are higher. Citizenship is more expensive because you need a lawyer if you are illegal but requirements are lower (18 years old, to have been here for at least 1 year, to have an honest way of living, to have passport or birth certificate).

To be a perma-tourist is illegal and it might have consequenses. It is like to rob, reallity is not like movies where there is a crime and 10 police cars show up and there is a happy ending for the good people and jail for criminals. In the real world criminals kill, rape and rob many times with no consequenses here, in the US and in China. The more times nothing happens the more confident and reckless they become. That´s the reason they are caught.

I don´t like to live in illegality, but that´s me, you are different. I respect that.

Regards

 

[Gilani]

Can you be more specific please?

Because buy/selling real state tax is cheaper being a citizenship.

Airplane tickets too. They aren´t taxes, I know.

What are the other obligations? To vote? We don´t have conscription duties.

Regards

Mr Bajo,

What are the implications for taxes on worldwide income as a citizen? especially if one does not live here 6 months a year but still has family here and wants to be a citizen.

 

[citygirl]

I have never encouraged people to remain here "illegally". I encourage people and am on record of doing so to get residency if at all possible.

As far as obligations regarding citizenship - there are tax implications which should be considered. And personally (which is my moral POV), I find it a bit ridiculous and dishonest to obtain citizenship if you don't intend to be a long-term citizen of the country.

Again - I simply responded to the OP that I doubt that she would have problems if she had gone to Colonia again now. And her situation was not evidence of a crackdown - the porroga dates issued in a visa renewal at Migraciones in Puerto Madero have always taken precedence and migraciones at the border have not (at least for the last 5 years) been able to override those dates. So if one leaves before the porroga expires, you can't get another 90 days until AFTER the porroga expires. That is SOP.

I stand by my statement that I encourage everyone to get residency if at all possible. And certainly citizenship if that is the route one wants to go. However, from my circle of friends who have been here for a year or two and haven't obtained residency and don't intend to stay, I haven't heard of any of them having problems. It's simply another POV.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Mr Bajo,

What are the implications for taxes on worldwide income as a citizen? especially if one does not live here 6 months a year but still has family here and wants to be a citizen.

Ask citigirl, she seems to be an expert about that. Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I have never encouraged people to remain here "illegally". I encourage people and am on record of doing so to get residency if at all possible.

You encourage people to go to Colonia for a new visa stamp and you already know this is illegal. So this is encougrage them to remain illegal in a stupid way, because if they remain illegal in Argentinian territorry there is almost no risk but going to the border they might be denied to entry.

Did you know that encoraging people to commit illegal actions is a crime in this country? You only need somebody to start a case to be prosecuted, then, perhaps, you might understand what are the difference between legal vsus illegal. However, don´t worry, I don´t like to waste my time too much and I suggest you to look for something called dictionary, look for the meaning of legal and Illegal.

As far as obligations regarding citizenship - there are tax implications which should be considered.

I want to know about them, please be more specific or stop trying to make people freak out with the terror tales you invent. What´s next, el Hombre de la bolsa?

And personally (which is my moral POV), I find it a bit ridiculous and dishonest to obtain citizenship if you don't intend to be a long-term citizen of the country.

You morality is weird.

You Know, I am polish too, they gave me citizenship even they know I have no intention to live in Poland. I don´t even speak polish, but I have the right to be Polish, the same than illegals have the right to be Argentinians. So, for you is moraly correct to remain illegal?

And of course, you are saying that law is immoral, because law nothing says about life time plan because this is people´ s busisness.

I suggest you go to church and you talk with a priest about your advice about trying to cheat the law when people have the chance to become legal.

Again - I simply responded to the OP that I doubt that she would have problems if she had gone to Colonia again now. And her situation was not evidence of a crackdown - the porroga dates issued in a visa renewal at Migraciones in Puerto Madero have always taken precedence and migraciones at the border have not (at least for the last 5 years) been able to override those dates."

What part of the sentence "there is a new deportation law that says that the perma-tourist thing is 100% illegal" you don´t understand?

It doesn´t make any difference if for the last 100 years thing were like you assert.

So if one leaves before the porroga expires, you can't get another 90 days until AFTER the porroga expires. That is SOP.

Wrong. Ignorance is a bliss, some people say. What about if you develope the skill of reading. Try to start with some weird thing called "deportation law", better known as decreto 616-2010 instead of blablablaing.

I stand by my statement that I encourage everyone to get residency if at all possible. And certainly citizenship if that is the route one wants to go.

After 4 or 5 months you still don´t get something as simple as the citizenship strategy was developed for those expat who CANNOT get residence.

However, from my circle of friends who have been here for a year or two and haven't obtained residency and don't intend to stay, I haven't heard of any of them having problems. It's simply another POV.

You should see the movie "the pianist". The people who were at the bar buying gold coins used to say the same than you. But this is only an extremist example.

Your friends are illegals, simple like that, but if they want to imagine they are Alice in wonderland, it´s ok.

I was seen a documental this morning, it is called "cocaine cowboys", the guy said the same than you but regarding the traffic, another illegal activitie nobody was prosecuting in Miami. I suggest you see it, they talk about traffiking tons of cocaine as an importing busisness.

Your argument is like saying, my friends smoke like a vulcan but nobody has cancer yet.

If you like adrenaline and being illegal makes you feel alive, good for you, but this is still reckless.

Regards

 

[sesamosinsal]

You encourage people to go to Colonia for a new visa stamp and you already know this is illegal. So this is encougrage them to remain illegal in a stupid way, because if they remain illegal in Argentinian territorry there is almost no risk but going to the border they might be denied to entry.

Bajo, you're a hoot. Didn't you know that encouraging people to break the law is a crime in this country?

Permatourism is ILLEGAL! BAD, BAD, BAD! But overstaying your tourist visa and remaining illegally? That's OK.

 

[French jurist]

Bajo, you're a hoot. Didn't you know that encouraging people to break the law is a crime in this country?

Permatourism is ILLEGAL! BAD, BAD, BAD! But overstaying your tourist visa and remaining illegally? That's OK.

Problem here is that for wannabee permatourists visiting the forum, it could at least be made clear that :
- Going to Colonia doesn't make you more "legal" by having repeated 90 days stamps on your passport. It's just that it's not being enforced (could be some day though) like is not being enforced the situation where someone overstay his/her tourist visa.
- It should also be repeated (and repeated, and repeated since those cases arise every day on the forum) that wannabee permatourists should not go to the DGM for visa renewals.

So yes, going to Colonia is a stupid way of remaining illegal (furthermore it puts you more "under the radar" than staying quietly within the borders)

Everything else (putting personal emotions into answers, taking personally different opinions, not accepting different views, seeing conspiracies everywhere, etc.) in fine contributes to inflate threads with personal comments, bitter remarks, etc. (not saying that for you though) and dilute the vital information this forum is supposed to transmit = later putting some expats into trouble because they won't have gotten the message right.


1. going to Colonia doesn't make you more "legal"
2. if you intend to overstay, do not go to the DGM
3. if you wish to stay and meet the conditions, apply for residency (or eventually directly citizenship weighting the pros/cons = matter of personal judgement).
4. if you don't meet the residency requirements and wish to stay, either stay illegal or go for the citizenship.


Everything else is blablaish imho

 

[sesamosinsal]

I'd still say that going to Colonia is a bit more legal than just staying illegally. I'm not really interested in whether or not the 180-day limit has been substantiated (Read again: I don't care). However, getting an immigration official to give you a stamp authorizing you for another 90 days -- albeit a loophole -- is certainly more legal than just staying in the country illegally. After all, the government via its representative is giving you its permission to remain another 90 days. So, can we put citygirl's public execution on hold for the time being?

 

[French jurist]

I'd still say that going to Colonia is a bit more legal than just staying illegally. I'm not really interested in whether or not the 180-day limit has been substantiated (Read again: I don't care). However, getting an immigration official to give you a stamp authorizing you for another 90 days -- albeit a loophole -- is certainly more legal than just staying in the country illegally. After all, the government via its representative is giving you its permission to remain another 90 days.

Indeed, let's say it's a bit more legal but in fact, they shouldn't be issuing those repeated 90 days visas (if I recall the decreto tells something like : if a border agent suspects that a foreigner is disvirtuing the purpose of his stay, he must, etc.).

Likely is this comparison exaggerated but it's a bit like if you were to receive a check to your name in the mail every month from a governmental agency, and not having the slightest idea why it arrives : you would cash them anyway for two years then they would come to you and bother you. You could answer : "but look you sent those to me" and maybe you were not supposed to receive those.

I think the main point is just that it's not being enforced.

Likely having the visa gives a feeling of security, like being able to answer to questions : but look, I have a visa your govnmt gave me!
They would answer, indeed, but can you explain to us how can it be you are a tourist here since 2 or 3 years ? (and of course, if things were to turn badly, one can expect to be firmly invited to leave once the ultimate visa has expired : just a pure hypothesis since this never happened of course).

Indeed, the risk passing the border is either zero or close to zero, but it remains that it puts you under the radar, makes you maybe "a bit more" legal (or is it just a make-up ?), makes you waste one day (if you are working), makes you spend 300+300 pesos every 3 months.

Consequences of overstaying or repeating the visas are strictly identical in the end since even if you were to run into immigration problems after having overstayed your visa, you would have some time to set things up or leave (like for the people having 20 tourist visas). That's why I see more inconvenients about going to Colonia.


Furthermore, there's one thing that has -never ?- been mentionned and it's an hypothesis again (unlikely to happen, but who knows, this is Argentina) :
There are maybe 5.000 to 20.000 permatourists from the "developped" countries, and if a crackdown was to happen, what would happen with the 20 or 30% of them who would decide to remain here (and therefore go legal = mostly through the citizenship process) ?
There would be huge waiting lines, delays + the risk that the old 19th century law to be abridged in order to stop the inflow.

It's just an hypothesis but it's another valid reason to go legal now, because there are ways.

But indeed, the citizenship is not something to consider lightly, that's one thing I agree at least with some of the posters.

EDIT : and about the argument to say with repeated tourist visas "After all, the government via its representative is giving you its permission to remain another 90 days" this is also something which appears to be consistent (it's a fact indeed) but which is in the end not a valid argument when you read the decreto. The decreto even allows Argentinean officials to decide that someone is disvirtuing the purpose of his stay before the first ever 90 days visa has expired (the decreto gives them a complete freedom of appreciation). That's also where the logic behind going to Colonia is flawed = false sense of security/legality.

 

[citygirl]

Argentina taxes its citizens on worldwide income. The specific tax liabilities and penalties that may be incurred by a person getting citizenship will obviously vary from person to person and also whether or not there are tax treaties between Argentina and whatever original country of citizenship and what assets and work someone has in another country. My point is simply that people can/should investigate that carefully and discuss with a lawyer and accountant before obtaining a 2nd citizenship to be aware of any/all financial implications. Not sure how that is fear-mongering - simply stating the obvious.

As for the rest - to each his own. My point in responding to the OP was simply to state that what happened to her has been SOP for the last few years and is not a new thing.

To the OP - I wish you the best of luck in getting your situation resolved in the best way possible for you.