Tourist visas

[AlexanderB]

To just overstay or to apply for citizenship.

But it seems to me that you just pointed out that overstaying is more problematic than I gave it credit for, and elsewhere, in http://baexpats.org/expat-life/10837-argentine-citizenship-foreigners.html, you pointed out that citizenship cases are slow, problematic, and suffer from a high rejection or "freezing" rate.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

But it seems to me that you just pointed out that overstaying is more problematic than I gave it credit for, and elsewhere,

I assert exactly the opposite. There is no advantage doing the Colonia run. In fact it might be quite problematic because it is as illegal as overstaying but with the disadvantage of putting yourself in jeopardy.

The whole thing about to renewal the visa every 90 days is just simple ignorance and superstition.

in http://baexpats.org/expat-life/10837-argentine-citizenship-foreigners.html, you pointed out that citizenship cases are slow, problematic, and suffer from a high rejection or "freezing" rate.

I think I meant that you need legal assistance for applying for citizenship:

In fact, even the procedure is for free and designed for being done without an attorney, you need legal assistance for sure.

The way judges deals with the cases makes tons of "paralizados" (frozen cases) like these:

Even there are about 10.000 applications per year, l think that the percentage of citizenship granted is very low, no more than 10%.

So, I do represent people with legal residency too because even they think that their case is easy, it is not.

Regards

If you are looking for a free solution, then the best is to overstay.
Regards

 

[AlexanderB]

If you are looking for a free solution, then the best is to overstay.

Not necessarily a free solution, no. Just a realistic one that is appropriate to my situation. If I am going to pay for something, it doesn't make sense to end up in similarly irregular status to the one I started out with.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Not necessarily a free solution, no. Just a realistic one that is appropriate to my situation. If I am going to pay for something, it doesn't make sense to end up in similarly irregular status to the one I started out with.

Wait and see. You already know where the citizenship thread is. Regards

 

[YanquiGallego]

I think it would be virtually impossible to enforce the entry/re-entry limit unless it were blatantly obvious that someone were abusive of it, as there are so many business people who come to Buenos Aires on such a regular basis (I know of numerous ones who stay in BA for weeks, sometimes a month or two, on business, every month or so) and then just leave and go home or to another Latin American destination that is on their business agenda, and nothing happens, and they have been doing this for years on end.

Also, have you seen the lines at the Banco de la Nación of people with over stay situations? Migraciones makes a very lucrative profit of people overstaying, it is more so interesting for them than PAYING to have someone deported. We all know Argentina historically loves to RECIEVE money, not PAY it, unless direly necessary.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Good for you.

Citigirl, I didn´t want to reply you before because you have the skill of irritating me a lot.

I believe that the whole thing about being a perma-tourist or to renewal the visa going to Colonia every 90 days is a blend of cultural misunderstanding and lack of proper legal knowledge (SC precedents).

In the US and UE people becomes automatically "Illegal" for overstaying the I-94 (staying permit). To be an illegal is like to be a criminal. Nobody want to be or feel like a criminal.

However, in Argentina when you overstay you become an inhabitant with the same rights than a citizen with one exception: you don´t have political rights.

So, there aren´t moral or legal issues regarding to overstay.

Here we talk about irregularity, that is a minor administrative issue that can be healed.

However, you don´t become an "irregular" for overstaying or abusing of the renewals of the visa. Here you are innocent until a sentence is enacted declaring your legal status irregular.

As an example, a married man is still married if he has an affaire. He needs to divorce to become single. Then the legal status changes.

So, both situations are equal but going to Colonia has some disadvantages.
1) When you leave the country, your re-entry can be denied just by the will of the DNM agent.
2) There are records of your immigration movements. The report is called "movimientos migratorios".

Overstaying you don´t have any risk.

The whole thing is to avoid to get a sentence that declares you irregular. Overstaying is more difficult to get it.

Well, I spoke to both my lawyer and Migraciones about this and both stated that there is no law that limits the total amount of time spent in Argentina to 180 days in a calendar year nor in a 12 month period. *

[FONT=&quot]a) Turistas: quienes ingresen con propósito de descanso o esparcimiento, con plazo de permanencia de hasta TRES (3) meses, prorrogables por otro período similar.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

The law says that you can be as a tourist for no more than 6 months. Are you saying that 180 days means something different that 6 months?
[/FONT]

For example, a tourist visa to brasil (which I happen to have in front of me) CLEARLY states: "No foreign national may stay in Brasil for more than 180 days within a period of 12 months calculated on the the basis of the date of entry either as a temporary II visa and/or on a tourist visa. It is forbidden to study and to take any renumerated activity."

A different legislation technique doesn´t mean that it is not forbidden.
Laws has to be interpreted as a whole, so you have to read the articles I quote all together and then they make sense.

[FONT=&quot]ARTICULO 29. - Serán causas impedientes del ingreso y permanencia de extranjeros al Territorio Nacional:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]k) El incumplimiento de los requisitos exigidos por la presente ley.[/FONT]

And Migraciones directly confirmed to me that were no issues with a longer stay if the intent was tourism during that time and the person left after 180 days as required by law and returned and did not work for money at all during that time.

Well, I guess you mean that a bureaucrats who barely finished high school and works there told you what she thinks the law says. It doesn´t look like a reliable source for me, sorry.

Regards

 

[YanquiGallego]

I am sure there will always be some difference of opinion between someone who sees things cut and dry¨al pie de la letra¨ because of their profession and everyday folks who see things more colloquially ¨en criollo¨

Like I said, I know of numerous people who sometimes without even knowing so, they have technically overstayed, been in Buenos Aires the calendar year more than 180 days off and on, left Argentina to go to Chile or Brazil, come back to Argentina, stay awhile again, go back to the States, come back 2 weeks later, etc, and have done patterns like this for several years without anyone second guessing them.

Things could be getting stricter, however. But, in my opinion, this, like the subject of being able to bring in several Iphones into the country without customs caring, I guess depends more on the official you deal with at the airport and how you act while in Argentina. (IE: Obviously if while here you commit a crime or get into trouble, it´s going to jump out to authorities when they detain you that you have been here X amount of time and you will have to explain yourself)

Just my humble 2 cents.

 

[sesamosinsal]

The law says that you can be as a tourist for no more than 6 months. Are you saying that 180 days means something different that 6 months?

You're missing the point. Most countries have a 180-day limit per calendar year. Yes, the law says that a tourist visa is valid 90 days, with a 90 day extension. But there is no law that explicitly states that the you can only enter Argentina for 180 days in a 12-month period.

Brazil was mentioned, and Brazil is very clear in this regard. It says "180 Days Per Year" on the visa. I could go to Brazil on my visa, stay 90 days, and then apply for an extension for another 90 days. If I tried to return to Brazil, I'd be denied entry because I've already stayed 180 days. That is a fact. In Argentina, however, that is not a fact.

 

[nicoenarg]

Woah, this is getting heated.

I think Bajo_cero2 is talking about the LAW and being a lawyer who deals with this stuff on a daily basis, I would listen to him about that.

However, the rest of the posters here seem to be talking about whether that law is enforced or not and it is quite true as well that it is in fact not enforced. That does not mean that it will or can never be enforced.

 

[YanquiGallego]

Right, this is exactly what I mentioned in my post. A professional will always give you their professional opinion, just like if I asked an airport customs worker, ¨If I bring back 4 Iphones from the States, will I get taxed?¨ They would certainly say yes. Whether or not it is enforced, is a different story. However, perhaps they are toughening up.

Woah, this is getting heated.

I think Bajo_cero2 is talking about the LAW and being a lawyer who deals with this stuff on a daily basis, I would listen to him about that.

However, the rest of the posters here seem to be talking about whether that law is enforced or not and it is quite true as well that it is in fact not enforced. That does not mean that it will or can never be enforced.