Tourists Destroying The Economy!

[nicoenarg]

Bitcoins are a waste of time, IMO. ejcot already pointed out the different rates with different exchanges. The fluctuations are way too wild. After hitting close to $750 yesterday most of the exchanges are quoting $500-$550. On www.preev.com, I checked the rate 15 minutes ago and it was $515 and now its $554 on the same website.

I can see potential profit if one day trades these things. But that would be exactly like day trading penny stocks because people with some money can easily drive up the price of bitcoins and entice others to join. Then when the time is right, cash their bitcoins sending the price crashing down.

As for open source, Linux only started becoming more popular amongst regular computer users because of distros like Ubuntu that actually try to be more mainstream. And even then they are barely gaining ground into the Desktop market. On the other hand, OS X which is also based on Unix but is not open source is gaining more market share, faster. I don't actually see bitcoins making much of a difference until it becomes more regulated and more stable. And regulations seem to be the things that proponents of bitcoins seem to hate so you'll have that hurdle.

PS: On preev its at $564 now.

 

[notebook.fix]

As for open source, Linux only started becoming more popular amongst regular computer users because of distros like Ubuntu that actually try to be more mainstream. And even then they are barely gaining ground into the Desktop market.

Linux is only one of many open source projects...once upon a time when everyone believed that Microsoft Windows was the be all end all, Ubuntu linux appeared as an alternative for PCs. Windows users have always tended to see Linux as something that wants to grow up to be a competitor of Microsoft windows but some , including myself, don't quite see it that way. We may see the demise of the whole 'wintel' monopoly as a strong possibility.

While M$ still dominates the desktop PCs, linux dominates the INternet & most electronic devices are controlled by Linux. Almost all Home appliance are run on linux code. Open source is much bigger than the desktop PC market.

Take android for example, it's a mobile phone & tablet OS adaptation based on the Linux Kernel...a Debian flavor of Linux to be more precise. This operating system is what is starting to dominate on hand held devices...these devices are becoming more powerful & are soon to become the next 'small Personal computers' - 'PCs in your pocket'... soon you'll be able to come home & turn your mobile into a dekstop PC by simply sitting it on a dock that will be connected to your LCD , wireless keyboard & mouse. Again, what is powering Android? a version of Linux. So even if Microsoft dominates on the desktop at this point in time, the death of the 'traditional PC' as everyone knows, is upon us now. To ad to Microsoft's list of blunders, under Balmer, not only did Microsoft miss the mobile phone/tablet market, it also diverted all it's energies & focused too much on pushing their next major failure called Windows 8, this is the best thing that ever happened for Apple & Android...M$ will sink with it's mess of an OS leaving Android & Apple to take over on the lighter computing devices currently referred to as 'mobile phones' & 'tablets'.

So, Android, an OPEN SOURCE Linux based OS is doing what Ubuntu couldn't and much much more, I'll put my money on Open Source any day.

 

[nicoenarg]

Didn't want this to turn into a debate about Microsoft vs Apple vs Linux, I was just pointing out that given a choice people are either slow or unwilling to make a change to open source. Linux and/or Unix have always been a huge part of the server side of things. In fact, if anyone needs to or in fact is gaining ground there (which is as slow as Ubuntu and other distros gaining ground in the Desktop market) is Windows.

M$ will sink with it's mess of an OS leaving Android & Apple to take over.

Same thing was said when Vista was released. And Windows 8 is a million times better than Vista. We'll see what happens though. As for Apple taking over, that doesn't say anything about the open source community. Darwin, on which iOS and OS X are based, is open source but virtually no one runs Darwin on their computers as the sole OS. Its the closed source OS X that is popular, not the skeleton that is Darwin (you have more complete BSD flavors, what's the market share there?).

Also, practices of Apple today are as bad or worse than those of Microsoft ever were so not sure who's winning here.

All the devices you mentioned, including mobile phone devices (plus ATM machines), get people to use Linux flavors in one way or another in a very passive way. With cellphones, you buy a device with the software on it already and depend on Google to push updates through. Same with ATMs and other home devices. Most people just want to be able to use their devices, regardless of the software on them. Generally people don't have to make a conscious decision.

And that is why I mentioned Desktops specifically. Bitcoins is a niche market and will be for the foreseeable future. And the less amount of people interested in it the more unstable it will be. Asking people to switch to Bitcoins is asking them to make a conscious decision akin to asking them to switch to Ubuntu on their Desktops. That was my whole point in mentioning Linux and open source. Not a debate on whether Linux wins or loses but on whether people would be willing to make that change. Something drastic will have to happen for people to dump regular currencies in favor of Bitcoins. And seeing that a lot of people still don't trust online transactions that much, I doubt people are going to jump on the Bitcoin bandwagon anytime soon.

 

[notebook.fix]

Good points you make. I understand where you're going. I agree, it's not about Linux, MIcorsoft or Apple, but I do feel that OPen source is making inroads & Android, like bitcoin is another facet of the change that is coming. Five years ago we may not have guessed that Android was going to dominate the coming platforms, bitcoins could also surprise us in ways we never expected it to.

Tech issues aside, I don't think you can truly get bitcoin until you understand banking history -not that I know much about it, but I have started to scratch the surface & on all counts, this mentality that says we should trust Politicians & bankers to control our money is starting to look a little worn & maybe a bit beyond the ridiculous considering all the perverse corruption and collusion at the top. Tally sticks were used as a very sound & reliable currency for 700 years, and like Bitcoins, they were finite in number. Fiat money will never achieve anything close. Bitcoin, like it or not, holds the promise of a change, a change that hands back control to the people. Call me naive, but I believe in that. They, the so called 'authorities', are desperate & to hack this baby to death before it walks, 'why?' you have to ask. What's with this mentality that blindly promotes the idea that big government regulation is going to save us? From what? Wars? Misery terrorism?

When they can print more $$$ they can start wars & fill their chests with our labor...Bitcoins are finite in number, only 21 million can be made, but they can be divided. This has got to be better than the 'print all you want' 'helicopter Bernanke', 'big government will save us all' sheeople mentality. Change can be scary I agree, but is essential given the recent history .

 

[nicoenarg]

Actually the whole Android thing would not have taken off had Google not been bankrolling the thing (same with Firefox, another open source community darling, if Google engineers hadn't worked on Firefox, we probably would have dumped it a long time ago--writing this using Firefox, BTW).

The day Bitcoins get the support of some exceptionally powerful individuals with a ton of money, my opinion will probably change.

Where I don't support "Big Government" I also don't think Bitcoin is the "everyday man's" solution to the whole big government problem, that is, if people perceive that as a problem. Even with bitcoins there will be a difference between the tech savvy who understand the whole bitcoin "banking system" (and the powerful individuals who are bankrolling it) and the "sheep" who merely use it. With that, we're back to square one. Anyone standing at the top of a mountain yelling, "I am giving power to the people!" is the same individual who will exert control over the people.

Anyway, I don't see us seeing eye to eye on this one. I'll wait and see how it pans out and maybe revisit this thread then

 

[notebook.fix]

This video illustrates my point about bitcoin in the best way...we're talking a cultural change..it's new for a lot of folks & as always with anything new, there's fear & misunderstanding:

Bitcoin 101 Blackboard - Why Bitcoin's Growth is Normal
http://www.youtube.c...HUPPYzzZrI#t=56

 

[scotttswan]

The fact that only 21 million bitcoins can be made isn't final, and you could quite easily change the settings if you get the exchanges to only accept the chain that has the changed settings.

This ignores the fact that a deflationary currency is a stupid idea, i'll leave you to look up

Just look at this crazy shit!

If you don't like monopolies but like monopoly money you should invest in Litecoin
http://www.ltc-chart...38;market=btc-e

its going up uP UP too! Only this time you cant easily build specialised mining hardware, so the power isn't controlled by a few groups of super miners! Get in now before its worth billions!

Hey guys me and my buddy have been trading a shiny pebble back and forth for an hour for 1 billion dollars/ton each (50$ for the pebble itself). Based on this I would advise you to invest in shiny pebbles, because holy shit they are worth like a billion dollars a ton right now based on my latest data!

:lol: