Very Good Article - Democracy & Peronism For Beginners

[pauper]

I have been reading the bubble since it went live- I was a fan of Bianca Fernet's previous blog- http://notparis.com/
and find it very entertaining.

I once saw Divine perform a cabaret act live. I saw Bob Flanagan pound nails thru his scrotum while singing "If I Had a Hammer". I saw Wendy O Williams chainsaw a guitar in half on stage while it was still sustaining a feedback chord, wearing nothing above the waist but two crosses of black electrical tape. I saw the Alien Comic. I saw Johanna Went pour five gallons of blood over herself wearing a nun costume. I saw Joey Shithead from DOA pee on the mosh pit during a song. I saw the Devil prance around at El Molino in Barcelona, waving an enormous dick. I saw a punk band once play an entire set wearing their tighty whiteys outside their jeans, with their jeans on inside out. I saw the band Polkacide play, wearing lederhosen painted with flame jobs, with strings of plastic sausuges hanging down from inside their pants.

It must be just fascinating being you. Perhaps we could put yourself and ajoknoblauch in a room and see who dies of boredom first.

 

[John.St]

Whatever Peronism's shortcomings, they don't come remotely close to Nazism, Italian Fascism, or Soviet Communism.

Have you seen the end of Peronism?

The majority of Germans could see the advantages of National Socialism in 1934 (I talked to several of them in the 1960-70s) - there were some minor problems, like Moreno bringing a loaded pistol to meetings with businesspeople who were to freeze prices, etc. (or was he a Peronist?)

Fascism and Communism also looked good at some stages before their exposed endings.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

Have you seen the end of Peronism?

The majority of Germans could see the advantages of National Socialism in 1934 (I talked to several of them in the 1960-70s) - there were some minor problems, like Moreno bringing a loaded pistol to meetings with businesspeople who were to freeze prices, etc. (or was he a Peronist?)

Fascism and Communism also looked good at some stages before their exposed endings.

Moreno is an ignorant thug but, to the best of my knowledge, he never killed anyone. I'm far from pro-Peronist, but what's been done to them by others (most notably the Proceso dictatorship) is far worse than anything they've aspired to.

 

[nicoenarg]

Moreno is an ignorant thug but, to the best of my knowledge, he never killed anyone. I'm far from pro-Peronist, but what's been done to them by others (most notably the Proceso dictatorship) is far worse than anything they've aspired to.

What exactly are you referring to?

 

[ajoknoblauch]

What exactly are you referring to?

So you think the Peronists are worse than Videla, Masserra & Co.?

 

[nicoenarg]

So you think the Peronists are worse than Videla, Masserra & Co.?

No I was asking what you were referring to, but apparently you like reading into sh*t.

Videla and Co were "supposedly" fighting against Montoneros, ERP and Co, folks that Peron himself wanted dead and/or gone (remember the songs by Montoneros agains Peron, Isabel and Lopez Rega to the tune of "Vea vea vea, que manga de boludos, votamos una muerta, una puta, y un cornudo" etc which made Peron go to the balcony and give an address that said: "Hace mas de veinte anos en este mismo balcon, frente a esta misma plaza y en un dia luminoso como el de hoy, hable por ultima vez a los trabajadores argentinos...hoy resulta que algunos imberbes pretenden tener mas meritos que los que lucharon durante veinte anos", etc this address is available on youtube if you want to listen to the whole thing). Isabel Peron continued the fight against them during her time in office as president after Peron died (Operativo Independencia, for example, was launched under her).

Montoneros, ERP and Co claimed they were fighting against dictatorships but curiously these groups carried out upwards of 5100 terrorist attacks, kidnappings, assassinations during 1973-1975 (during the time of Juan and Isabel Peron).

Videla was promoted to higher command because Isabel and her advisors thought of him as "apolitical" and someone who will get the job done and not take over the government (UCR of course made sure that the military would take over during the latter part of 1975 and beginning of 1976).

If, to you, somehow Montoneros and ERP's actions elevate them to a higher standard than Videla's then you and I have nothing to talk about.

Montoneros and ERP both were declared illegal during Isabel's time. The military government, unlike previous ones, did not declare peronismo illegal and neither did they declare communist parties illegal (partido communista wholeheartedly supported Videla's government).

In my opinion, Montoneros and ERP and other communist terrorists were as bad as Videla and Co.

Hence I asked what you were referring to.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

No I was asking what you were referring to, but apparently you like reading into sh*t.

Videla and Co were "supposedly" fighting against Montoneros, ERP and Co, folks that Peron himself wanted dead and/or gone (remember the songs by Montoneros agains Peron, Isabel and Lopez Rega to the tune of "Vea vea vea, que manga de boludos, votamos una muerta, una puta, y un cornudo" etc which made Peron go to the balcony and give an address that said: "Hace mas de veinte anos en este mismo balcon, frente a esta misma plaza y en un dia luminoso como el de hoy, hable por ultima vez a los trabajadores argentinos...hoy resulta que algunos imberbes pretenden tener mas meritos que los que lucharon durante veinte anos", etc this address is available on youtube if you want to listen to the whole thing). Isabel Peron continued the fight against them during her time in office as president after Peron died (Operativo Independencia, for example, was launched under her).

Montoneros, ERP and Co claimed they were fighting against dictatorships but curiously these groups carried out upwards of 5100 terrorist attacks, kidnappings, assassinations during 1973-1975 (during the time of Juan and Isabel Peron).

Videla was promoted to higher command because Isabel and her advisors thought of him as "apolitical" and someone who will get the job done and not take over the government (UCR of course made sure that the military would take over during the latter part of 1975 and beginning of 1976).

If, to you, somehow Montoneros and ERP's actions elevate them to a higher standard than Videla's then you and I have nothing to talk about.

Montoneros and ERP both were declared illegal during Isabel's time. The military government, unlike previous ones, did not declare peronismo illegal and neither did they declare communist parties illegal (partido communista wholeheartedly supported Videla's government).

In my opinion, Montoneros and ERP and other communist terrorists were as bad as Videla and Co.

Hence I asked what you were referring to.

There were some bloodthirsty types among ERP and Montoneros, and Perón himself had no compunctions about opening fire on his own ostensible supporters among them, but nothing they did comes remotely close to the scale of atrocities perpetrated by Videla, Massera and the like, who vastly outclassed their opponents in sheer viciousness and firepower.

 

[camberiu]

silly you if you believe (some kind of) peronismo wont win in 2015.

 

[nicoenarg]

There were some bloodthirsty types among ERP and Montoneros, and Perón himself had no compunctions about opening fire on his own ostensible supporters among them, but nothing they did comes remotely close to the scale of atrocities perpetrated by Videla, Massera and the like, who vastly outclassed their opponents in sheer viciousness and firepower.

It doesn't make one murderer worse than another if the former can kill more than the latter. At the end of the day a murderer is a murderer. Peron himself only turned against Montoneros after they assassinated Jose Rucci.

Like I said before though, if to you Montoneros and ERP (some bloodthirsty types? Right! Just because now they're raising flags of "derechos humanos" doesn't make their previous actions irrelavant) are somehow better than Videla and Co then we have nothing to talk about in this regard.

The fact that both sides were murderers and terrorists is only denied by people towing the party line of one side or another.

PS: In total, over a period of 10 years, 21,642 terrorist attacks are not a minor thing.

 

[ajoknoblauch]

It doesn't make one murderer worse than another if the former can kill more than the latter. At the end of the day a murderer is a murderer. Peron himself only turned against Montoneros after they assassinated Jose Rucci.

Like I said before though, if to you Montoneros and ERP (some bloodthirsty types? Right! Just because now they're raising flags of "derechos humanos" doesn't make their previous actions irrelavant) are somehow better than Videla and Co then we have nothing to talk about in this regard.

The fact that both sides were murderers and terrorists is only denied by people towing the party line of one side or another.

PS: In total, over a period of 10 years, 21,642 terrorist attacks are not a minor thing.

Both of them were reprehensible but, in terms of numbers, you're dealing with false equivalencies. Nevertheless, you're allowed to state your pro-Proceso opinions as openly as you wish. The Kirchneristas, Camporistas and their allies may be hypocrites on human rights issues, but that's not a crime.