Villa Soldati - Are you watching?

[jaredwb]

It's become thug culture down there now. An excuse for the mindless minority to incite violence and confrontation.
It reminds me of the London riots of the 80's. I remember watching that from my appt.
Dangerous!
And it's about time someone in the govt took control. It's beyond politics now.

Thank you! Absolutely correct.

Now the poor put out thieves are asking for clean water, food, diapers, clean bathrooms, etc. etc. etc. WTF??? Since when is life free. I can't understand anyone that can logically defend these people. I don't care what they were "promised"...shit happens and the development didn't happen (if there really ever was one to happen).

 

[Napoleon]

This is reminiscent of when the US (& Friends) troops roared into Baghdad and then had absolutely no plan for once they got there other than to protect the Department of Petroleum (or whatever it was called).

If they had kept order from the start, things would have been a lot different, but they let things get out of hand before they decided to even make a show of force. I feel that Cristina is making the same mistake. The only thing in her favor is that quality Caterpiller Bulldozers like this one-

Can clear a villa in a matter of hours. Even Villa 31 could be leveled in under a day. That's the only thing that Cristina has in her favor that Bush didn't. A bulldozer or two couldn't solve W's problems.

When you can flip on your TV and see a re-enactment of Dodgeball performed with ROCKS instead of red rubber balls, you know that things are getting out of hand.

 

[LAtoBA]

You're missing the point. Whatever reason your protest is, blocking highways and making someone else's life hell should not be the solution.

I disagree. The point of pubic protests are to disrupt normalcy in order to make people pay attention and listen to you.

Using the US as a reference I can think of several instances in my country's history in which protests/riots engendered change and brought awareness to an issue that other segments of the population were completely ignorant and oblivious too. People protest to be heard and to change a status quo they believe to be wrong. You can't do that with niceties and normalcy. People don't listen when they're comfortable or in the driver's seat.

As far as this whole incident I don't know enough about Argentina's history and deeper political issues to be able to comment one way or the other.

 

[esllou]

...and now they're all getting a house/mortgage!

*runs off to Villa Soldati, copy of 'Home & Garden 2010' under my arm*

 

[marraco]

This is reminiscent of when the US (& Friends) troops roared into Baghdad and then had absolutely no plan for once they got there other than to protect the Department of Petroleum (or whatever it was called).

If they had kept order from the start, things would have been a lot different, but they let things get out of hand before they decided to even make a show of force. I feel that Cristina is making the same mistake. The only thing in her favor is that quality Caterpiller Bulldozers like this one-

Can clear a villa in a matter of hours. Even Villa 31 could be leveled in under a day. That's the only thing that Cristina has in her favor that Bush didn't. A bulldozer or two couldn't solve W's problems.

When you can flip on your TV and see a re-enactment of Dodgeball performed with ROCKS instead of red rubber balls, you know that things are getting out of hand.

Forget all that about bulldozers. This is not USA.

Despite the people with bad attitude, which surely is consequence of real-life crime rooting on slums and causing understandable fear, Argentina is not xenophobic, and is proud of being solidary, compasive and humanitarian.

This is not the first wave of indigenous migration to Argentina, and will not be the last. Argentina on the past reacted giving them land, houses, health care and education. That’s why they keep moving to Argentina.

On USA, they would be detained, incarcerated, and deported, but not here. There are no illegal immigrants on Argentina. Only undocumented.

Muslims are not molested about their right to build mosques like in New York. They are not forced to dress like French like in France. As consequence, they integrated, and you can’t tell the difference between a Muslim Argentine and other origins. They do mosques wherever they want, and nobody cares. I know a Jew architect who designed a mosque in Córdoba.

USA and Europe don’t understand that to integrate foreigners they should be accepted as they are. Integration is not about enforcing your customs and viewpoint. It’s about being welcoming and friendly.

The people calling Argentines xenophobic, on base of a limited experience, are xenophobic themselves.

Slums exist because Argentina has being not able to sustain the migratory pressure, and economic difficulties (both for internal and external causes) do not allowed to absorb the new citizens, but world reality is changing, and Argentina may be able to recover.

In the past, Indo-American and European migrants were given land, houses, and all the benefits. They prospered making this country one of the richest. It makes new citizens productive; it’s an investment.

 

[Napoleon]

Forget all that about bulldozers. This is not USA.

You're right, this would have never happened in the first place in the USA.

This is not the first wave of indigenous migration to Argentina, and will not be the last. Argentina on the past reacted giving them land, houses, health care and education. That’s why they keep moving to Argentina.

And that's why the government has defaulted on loans and inflation is 25%.

On USA, they would be detained, incarcerated, and deported, but not here. There are no illegal immigrants on Argentina. Only undocumented.

Only if they broke immigration laws. And not even then many times.

Muslims are not molested about their right to build mosques like in New York.

Nor are they molested about their right to blow up Embassies or community centers.

USA and Europe don’t understand that to integrate foreigners they should be accepted as they are. Integration is not about enforcing your customs and viewpoint. It’s about being welcoming and friendly.

When police have told me to "Quidado los bolivianos.", I don't think "welcoming and friendly", I think "I can't believe he just said that... and if HE's saying that, then that says a lot."

In the past, Indo-American and European migrants were given land, houses, and all the benefits. They prospered making this country one of the richest. It makes new citizens productive; it’s an investment.

Law abiding citizens & immigrants shouldn't have to suffer so that thugs get what they want. I was talking with an Argentine today who told me that his taxi driver from yesterday told him something. (I can't vouch for its validity and neither can my Argentine friend who heard this from the taxista, but...)

The taxi driver has a friend who has a nice house and a 4X4 truck. He pays for this by organizing the take over of land and then dividing up the property and selling off the sections. In most of the world this guy would be considered a thief for selling stolen property. But in most other countries, the fact that the property is actually land is unthinkable. But here, at least with the current government occupying the Casa Rosada, stealing has been decriminalized. It's really amazing to watch.

 

[nikad]

The taxi driver has a friend who has a nice house and a 4X4 truck. He pays for this by organizing the take over of land and then dividing up the property and selling off the sections. In most of the world this guy would be considered a thief for selling stolen property. But in most other countries, the fact that the property is actually land is unthinkable. But here, at least with the current government occupying the Casa Rosada, stealing has been decriminalized. It's really amazing to watch.

No, it has not been decriminalized... but he who steals from a thief...;o)

 

[marraco]

You're right, this would have never happened in the first place in the USA

Being human does have costs. Is not free.

And that's why the government has defaulted on loans and inflation is 25%.

Of course not. The default has a history tracked from the end of the Second World War. It ended after the IMF sanctioned policies of currency overvaluation and paying debt with new, larger debt.

The 25% inflation has three causes:

1-The peso is artificially undervalued.
2-USA is flooding the world with an excess of newly printed dollar, causing worldwide inflation.
3-The world is growing, pressuring commodities prices up.

Only if they broke immigration laws. And not even then many times

We all know that those "immigration laws" are excuses to keep Mexicans out. Laws made to block the largest possible number of non-white immigrants.

There are no racist “green card” excuses here. No Berlin walls to keep Mexicans out.

And nobody would dare to deny Argentine nationality to immigrant sons born here, like USA is trying to do.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-15/us/arizona.immigration.children_1_immigration-law-anchor-babies-arizona-republicans?_s=PM:US

Nor are they molested about their right to blow up Embassies or community centers

That’s a cheap shot. The bombings were the answer to Menem helping USA to invade Iraq. Bad election of friends.

It does not mean that Muslims are terrorist. Pointing fingers to Muslims like New York is doing about the Cordoba center, is the same thing that Hitler did when pointed fingers to Jews. They are accused of the nation problems only to get a political advantage. Strawmans on GOP hands.

When police have told me to "Quidado los bolivianos.", I don't think "welcoming and friendly", I think "I can't believe he just said that... and if HE's saying that, then that says a lot."

What a decency from somebody proposing running Carterpillar buldozzers over the slums.

I know that you know that most probably the police is not saying that for racist reasons, but because poor Bolivians are large percentage of slums, and slums contain large rates of crime.

There are also Bolivians who migrate to Argentina to get engineer education. I know many.



The answer is not to run a bulldozer over desperate people. We need to make a place for them (not a public park, and we probably can’t pay for all of it). It is our common problem. We can’t ignore poor and abandon them.
Violence will only worsen anything.

That people is not only a problem. They also are solutions. They are work force. They are market. They are a young population, and willing to do something to turn better. They are just misguided, and Argentina is not innocent.

Law abiding citizens & immigrants shouldn't have to suffer so that thugs get what they want. I was talking with an Argentine today who told me that his taxi driver from yesterday told him something. (I can't vouch for its validity and neither can my Argentine friend who heard this from the taxista, but...)

The taxi driver has a friend who has a nice house and a 4X4 truck. He pays for this by organizing the take over of land and then dividing up the property and selling off the sections. In most of the world this guy would be considered a thief for selling stolen property. But in most other countries, the fact that the property is actually land is unthinkable. But here, at least with the current government occupying the Casa Rosada, stealing has been decriminalized. It's really amazing to watch.

We have really bad politicians, and third world problems. We live on the third world.

Violence will not solve anything. We tried that before 1983, and anything got worse. It’s time to find another way.

 

[steveinbsas]

This is not USA.
Muslims are not molested about their right to build mosques like in New York.

Nor are they molested about their right to blow up Embassies or community centers.

That’s a cheap shot. The bombings were the answer to Menem helping USA to invade Iraq. Bad election of friends.

That is not the generally accepted reason for the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires:

"A group called Islamic Jihad Organization, which has been linked to Iran and possibly Hezbollah,[3] claimed responsibility;[2] their stated motive for the attack was Israel's assassination of Hezbollah Secretary General Sayed Abbas al-Musawi in February,[4] which in turn was in retaliation for the kidnapping and death of missing Israeli servicemen in 1986 and abduction of US Marine and UN peace-keeping officer William R. Higgins in 1988. [5]"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Israeli_Embassy_attack_in_Buenos_Aires

 

[jaredwb]

Forget all that about bulldozers. This is not USA.

Despite the people with bad attitude, which surely is consequence of real-life crime rooting on slums and causing understandable fear, Argentina is not xenophobic, and is proud of being solidary, compasive and humanitarian.

This is not the first wave of indigenous migration to Argentina, and will not be the last. Argentina on the past reacted giving them land, houses, health care and education. That’s why they keep moving to Argentina.

On USA, they would be detained, incarcerated, and deported, but not here. There are no illegal immigrants on Argentina. Only undocumented.

Muslims are not molested about their right to build mosques like in New York. They are not forced to dress like French like in France. As consequence, they integrated, and you can’t tell the difference between a Muslim Argentine and other origins. They do mosques wherever they want, and nobody cares. I know a Jew architect who designed a mosque in Córdoba.

USA and Europe don’t understand that to integrate foreigners they should be accepted as they are. Integration is not about enforcing your customs and viewpoint. It’s about being welcoming and friendly.

The people calling Argentines xenophobic, on base of a limited experience, are xenophobic themselves.

Slums exist because Argentina has being not able to sustain the migratory pressure, and economic difficulties (both for internal and external causes) do not allowed to absorb the new citizens, but world reality is changing, and Argentina may be able to recover.

In the past, Indo-American and European migrants were given land, houses, and all the benefits. They prospered making this country one of the richest. It makes new citizens productive; it’s an investment.

Sorry, you have the definition of Integration backwards. Immigrants integrate INTO OUR SOCIETY, NOT the other way around as you incorrectly described. If you come to the U.S. you follow the rules and social norms of the U.S. That is integration. The U.S. accepts and give opportunities to all LEGAL immigrants, as long as they follow the law of the land (U.S.)

As for the Mosque in NY...NOBODY is denying they have a right to build it. The citizens are solely voicing their concern that is isn't responsible to build it so close to a place many consider sacred and where Muslims killed 3000 people. I being one of them as I was in NYC on 9/11.

Slums exist because you have multiple generations of lazy ass, government dependents (both argentines and immigrants) who would rather sit and do nothing then get off their asses and work. The Gov, by continuously GIVING money to these people encourages them to do nothing and the cycle continues.