Villa Soldati - Are you watching?

[Moxon]

Something easy: have you read the PISA-test results? Even Perú and Brasil look better than we do! Or are you also going to say - like that parasite of a minister of education we have- that the results are false???
Or talk to any teacher and ask them what they think.

Yes I have seen the PISA results for 2006-2009 they show modest gains in the three indices measured at percentages higher than the Latin American average gain over that period, Argentina's ranking is still unacceptable but from this evidence things have at least turned around and are moving in the right direction again.

Sorry, but you know how it works: my aunt and other teacher who should start working in the new 'school' are packed inside an old school, sitting 45 children per room where there should be no more than 20-25. When it rains they have to move around are get 'more compact' to avoid the water dripping from the roof. That is when the plastic used to replace the missing window glass has no holes.
Teachers and guaraníes take turns to protest in front of the governour's house in Posadas.

So one would assume there would have been media coverage. Again if you can show me a report that one or any of those four schools is not functioning I will subtract the appropriate total from the figure.

 

[pauper]

It is known and proved that people in villas " own " land and build houses that they then rent out to the real poor. They sell and rent what they do not own, in my opinion they are obviously not in need but actually running a very lucrative business; they should go after them. There is a mafia or " poor " people exploiting the poor, it has to end.

Of course, that is established and I touched on it earlier but that was not what I was referring to, I was enquiring specifically about the reports of the involvement of punteros and representatives aligned to Macri and people answering to Cristian Ritondo.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I'm shocked that this is being allowed to degenerate to this level and that CFK hasn't (as far as I've seen) said anything about the issue. Where is she? Is this a political issue? A CFK vs Macri thing? I see pauper mentioned an incident in 2002 that could answer this question. I'll have to read about it.

This situation was a suicide for Macri and his Presidential ambitions. That´s why CFK let him burn himself.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

As I've said on this forum before, nationalism is one of the last accepted of forms of discrimination. Argentina, in my opinion, is one of the leading countries in pushing for a more equal society. As examples, in Argentina women can become president, and GLTBQ individuals can get married or have their DNI reflect their gender. But Argentina (and not just Argentina, but every other country in the world) discriminates against those who are from other countries (e.g., charging people entry fees just because they are from certain countries). How is discriminating against someone being born in Bolivia any different from being born gay? a woman? or with darker skin?

I agree with you partially.

Sometimes the country discriminates systematically, sometimes is people.

In this country there is a struggle between people who believes about discrimination and people who believes about human rights.

Former President K abolished the deportation for people from borderline countries as a way to work against discrimination and 3.5 million people got DNI, there is 1.5 million irregulars. President CFK with decreto 616.2010 changed the immigration official policy focusing in non-mercosur irregulars.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

There is the fact that there are people here that are very poor, not citizens, and that crime in the area has skyrocketed. I'm not saying it's acceptable, but that those who are not from here are perceived as being the problem by people who feel threatened.

No, I'm not missing the point, really. The people who live here want order. They want some kind of enforcement and the way people get the attention around here is through civil disobedience. Blocking the highway may not be productive, but it's the only recourse people have around here. The perception is that the park is going to be converted to villas and if that happens, the entire neighborhood will basically be surrounded or even converted. It's not a far stretch for the people here to believe that, regardless of whether that's the likeliest outcome or not.

The city has let these villas grow and grow and grow. If there are any zoning laws, they are not enforced. I'm not sure that the highway blockage is the source of the mass instability. Though it's not helpful, it's the only way people here have of getting the attention of outsiders on their own cause or POV.

It's despicable that ambulance drivers were attacked and not allowed through and that people died. But the problem is not simply xenophobia - it's more than that. It's poverty and the lack of government involvement that allowed these villas to become societies unto themselves, isolating the people therein more than their status as immigrants would do alone. The culture there is identifiable, people from the villa can be recognized by the way they talk or dress and though certainly the majority of them are not criminals, they are stigmatized as such when they leave.

Well, you know, that´s the point. Macri´s policy was regarding to cancel housing programs in the city. There was a plan a few years ago about building a neighbor in some lands close to Parque Interamericano and he canceled it. After that he sent people to cheap pensiones and a year later he cancel it too. But there is a budget for housing. Where is it?

On the other hand, his government was focus on the rich areas of the city creating bici-sendas or making suipacha for pedestrians. Very useful developments .

Isn´t is weird that his super police wasn´t created for this area that really needs security?

He is not looking for solutions, he looks for more discrimination.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Does anybody here come from New York City and remember Tompkins Square Park on the lower east side? I remember when it was taken over by the homeless and the result of the police coming in and the riots that followed. It was unreal. However since the cops and the mayor didn´t give in the the illegal occupiers, they eventually were driven out. If any of you happen to be in NYC anytime soon, take a look at Tompkins Square now, it's beautiful.

NYC is a rich city where was easy to get a job and there weren´t some millions of homeless. Am I wrong?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I do not agree that people should squat on public land just because they can . I believe that anarchy is the new face of Argentina if the society allows this to happen .

In regards to immigration and poverty there must be balance as always . Argentinians are entitled to live in a city of low crime and good standards . Allowing unfettered entry for all and sundry is a cataylst for huge social problems in the future. This is not rascism but realism .

There is too much entry into Buenos Aires atm from the poor of neighbouring societies and the fact is being here is not helping their situation as the cost of living here as well as the overstrechted services are collapsing from the demand.

I do worry for my and our future as we are in the midst of a social experiment that can have drastic consequences if left unchecked.

Perry, this phenomenon you mentioned has 50 years in this country. And the solution always was to grow.

The crazy people who created this experiment were Sarmiento and Alberdi, they developed our Constitution planning to bring 100.000.000 people. So, we have been dealing since 1869 with poor immigrants from Spain, Italy, and after the 50`s from border countries and, recently, from China. So, we are a unique country about immigration because we have the most open immigation policy in the world, this is Argentina and that´s why Argentina is what it is.

And the fact is that immigrants are hard workers who live in villas transitory.

If we can get some other 50.000.000 immigrants anc achieve Alberdi´s plan, then we´ll finally became a real country.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Judging by the amount of money they have spent and for the results they have achieved, I would say they are VERY corrupt or utter incompetent...or probably both.

Well, it is not automatic, you have to wait 10 years. Remember Duhalde education reform? 10 years later those kids arrived to the university, I was teaching at UBA, and from one year to the next, when the people from polimodal arrived it was a disaster. So, let´s talk about this in 10 years.

Regards

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I am sickened by some of the recent posts blaming Macri and/or other Gov for the "problem". The BLAME is 100% on those that decided that the park was free land "owed" to them. Period!

Well, this is probably because you are misinformed. Macri canceled the housing programs some years ago, now you have the consequences.

And those that defend these rats because they are poor are mistaken! This is not a problem of "the poor". There are many poor who are dignified and have pride. They work. They struggle. They strive for a better life for themselves. They don't DEMAND the Govt GIVE them houses.

Well, why don´t you send them to the gas chamber?

You know, this is not the pre-crisis US where if people wanted to work they just work and were able to raise economically. This is a country were if you are poor you work like a slave and you just survive with no hope of progress. They don´t have access to bank credits, so that´s why they ask to the government to build houses, finance them and they want to pay for them. On the other hand, they are claiming for their rights because law said the government has to build houses and there is a budget assigned. So, instead of building houses, somebody is stealing this money.

Here is more info:
http://www.vivienda.gov.ar/fonavi.php

This is yet another display of years of failed South American Socialism. Bolivia, Venezuela, Argentina.

Generations of lazy, uneducated, welfare recipients who have no work ethic and would rather have litters of babies so they get the Govt checks then work...even if a job were handed to them on a silver platter. Of course, they would probably just sell the platter.

And now, you have the crazy left militants at the park protesting and "defending" the poor thieves. WTF?? Why the hell are they even there??

As far as I know, the economies you mentioned are doing very well. You forgot to mention Brazil, another "socialist" country with a former union President and with a former guerrillera elected new President.

On the other hand, the ultra neo US is having big issues, isn´t it true? I was there last year and this country works because mexicans works. My former girlfriend had a food concession and it was useless to hire americans. They didn´t know how to give change (you should learn this when you are 7 years old) and they were lazy and stupid. How do you call them? Red necks?

This happened in upstate NY and Baltimore. So, she had to hire high class americans from Annapolis who were finishing high school or foreigners who were on the basis of student visas. Red necks were useless. And mexicans weren´t available in those cities.

So, what are you talking about?

 

[Bajo_cero2]

I was not discussing the constitutionality of the situation...Not sure but don't care what the constitution says about immigration. It is a disaster. Completely open borders. Stealing from the citizens to pay for housing, food, healthcare, of immigrants (legal and not). I think we agree on this

Sorry, but this is the law. There is a process going on similar to EU: open working market, no borders inside mercosur for people..

Regards