Visa Run = Fake Tourist = Permatourist Deported At Ezeiza

[Somewhereinba]

There are different kind of residencies for those who are here without working: pensionista, rentista, estudiante, etc.

Forget the euphemism of perma-tourist, the real word is fake tourist (pseudo-turista).
According to decree 616/2010 and the immigration act, after the first 6 months, you should apply for a residency.

And let´s be honest, there is not another country where there is so easy to get a legal way to stay as soon as you can regularize your situation any time and you can even get citizenship without legal residency. Here the point is the big mistake of the "visa run", the mistake is to believe that doing it you are legal. After the decree 616/2010 there is not a loophole anymore:

ARTICULO 61.- Cuando se verifique que un extranjero hubiere desnaturalizado los motivos que autorizaron su ingreso al territorio argentino o permaneciera en éste vencido el plazo de permanencia acordado, la DIRECCION NACIONAL DE MIGRACIONES lo intimará a fin de que, en un plazo que no exceda de TREINTA (30) días, se presente a regularizar su situación migratoria debiendo acompañar los documentos necesarios para ello. A tal efecto, se lo notificará por escrito informándole, de un modo comprensible, las consecuencias que le deparará mantenerse en la situación migratoria advertida.

So, if you want to stay in Argentina, just overstay and you pay the fine when you leave.
Or apply for a residency.
Or apply for citizenship.
Regards

Thanks for the information, but it still isn't clear what defines a perma-tourist. How many days of the year do they need to be in Argentina to be classified as a perma-tourist (6 months)? Can you give more information on your client that got rejected, how long had he been in Argentina, how many times had he re-entered the country and what questions were asked that failed to satisify the officials?

 

[JamJam]

Ah the golden days of perma-tourist is drawing to an end. (sniff sniff)

I can imagine a lot of language schools will find it harder to find staff now.
But like you say there aren't many other countries in the world that would allow this.

On the other hand Argentina isn't Europe where if they had that situation 90% of Africa and India would try to relocate there.

I suppose its the 'fair' thing to do but weather it will benefit the country, I don't know. I would say Argentina is one place that would really benefit from an influx of ideas and talent form other countries.

 

[syngirl]

Thanks for the information, but it still isn't clear what defines a perma-tourist. How many days of the year do they need to be in Argentina to be classified as a perma-tourist (6 months)? Can you give more information on your client that got rejected, how long had he been in Argentina, how many times had he re-entered the country and what questions were asked that failed to satisify the officials?

Perma-tourist is not an official category, it is just a name that is used on this forum to refer to those here that just renew their tourist visas indefinitely. Generally speaking, on a worldwide scale I mean, tourist visas are only issued for 90 day stays -- you are allowed two 90 days stay in the course of 12 months. In other words you are allowed inside a country without any resident or student visa for only 6 months out of every 12 months. The tourist visa issued in Argentina allows for one renewal period. This means you can go to immigrations before your initial 90 days stay is up and renew the visa for another 90 days. After that 90 you must leave the country.

This is where things differ from most other countries: after the second round of 90 days, most other countries would refuse you entry until another 6 months had passed. Argentina has historically ignored this and has allowed tourists to exit the country for as little as a few hours and then when they return will restamp their passport with a tourist visa valid again for 90 days. So this is why people on the board refer to it as being a permatourist -- they never go through the next stages of taking out a proper student or resident visa.

In Canada or the USA if you tried to pull the same stunt you would definitely be turned back at the border -- even if you were a Canadian trying to get into the USA or vice versa. Canadians to the US and Americans to Canada also only get tourist visa stays of a maximum of 180 days in a 12 month period, if they stayed in the other country for 180 days and then went to the border, exited, ate lunch, and turned around and tried to get back in, they would be at best laughed at, be given a big lecture, or worse case scenario get a huge flag on their passport, and potentially be denied entry to the other country for up to 5 years.

Argentina has been very kind to foreigners who are abusing the system. But what these foreigners are doing is illegal, and I am always shocked when these foreigners just can't understand that the trip to Colonia is as stupid as it would be to show up at the Peace Arch crossing in Washington state every few months and announce, hey I'm here!!! Also I think it's ridiculous that there are permatourists who really think that it's them -- a few what, thousand? maybe? people doing the permatourist thing in Argentina -- are the ones holding up the economy. It shows what a bubble they are living in. The permatourists are a little blot in a country of over 40million people. Most foreigners I know who have been here for any length of time have their DNIs by now, I think it starts to get ridiculous to stay for years and years and not figure out some way of doing it.

The trip to colonia is ridiculous, it may make you feel that you're not actually a illegal (though that is precisely what you are) but it's not truly doing anything to change your status legally. As Bajo Cero says, overstay, get your residency, or take citizenship. But getting on that boat every 90 days or so is not doing anything more than alerting immigrations to your situation.

 

[Nounou]

Reading between the lines of some of the posts language schools in B.A must employ quite a few 'tourists'. Must be a tricky business especially given that tourists as a rule don't have work rights. I hope there are no compliance officers lurking, they would have a field day!

Immigration to me is a system that must be carefully managed. I have no idea of migration policy is managed in Argentina, here its very much based on skills, experience, age and English lauguage ability, except that is unless you are especially well healed and can afford a business or investment visa. Ideas and talent aside, any influx would spell disaster for the local population, it would be particularly hard for youth (apprenticeships etc) and would be detrimental to the employment market in the long run.

Sorry, but as Bajo says, either your in or your out.....so to speak.

 

[JamJam]

You could also look at it this way:

Whats the difference between a perm-tourist and a Bolivian working in negro? (not meaning to sound like a Cronica joke)

I don't think perm-tourists really cause the country much harm and in total perhaps they add something.

I would guess that its more harmful to receive huge amounts of unskilled immigrants from poorer South America countries that work in negro than a few thousand perm-tourists

 

[steveinbsas]

At what stage do you they classify you as a perma tourist and thus deport you? I've never understood why it would be illegal as long as you aren't working there - you are giving money to the country.

I think one issue that doesn't get much attention in the permatourist discussion is that of taxes.

If you are living in Argentina more than 180 days of the year you are a tax resident and must pay taxes on the money you are earning in or out of Argentina and in addition to the IVA you pay on many purchases (and are supposed to be paying on all of them). If you are working illegally in Argentina and not paying taxes on that income, you are not "giving (the) money to the country" that is required by law.

The foreign income requirements for the visa financero (aka rentista) and pensionado were raise significantly a few years ago but now seem relatively low ($8000 pesos per month) when compared to current prices. Anyone who can't get one of these visas still can apply for citizenship if living here is that desirable to them. Judges seem far less concerned about the amount of money earned or whether or not it is en blanco than the folks at migraciones.

There have been very few deportations reported here, especially instant ones (or denial of entry). As BC2 pointed out, there is no such category as a permatourist. In fact it's a contradiction in terms, albeit a clever label for those who live in Argentina and continuously leave and reenter the country (usually the same day) in order to get a new 90 day visa. Living in Argentina on a never ending series of new 90 day visas does not grant an individual the "right" to stay. A visa transitoria (valid for 90 days) does not grant residencia temporaria (valid for one year).

As others have noted in previous threads, I don't think there is actually a specified number of days a foreigner may spend in Argentina in a year (without a one year visa). The law does state that a 90 day tourist visa may be extended once at the office of migraciones. If you return for a second extension it will be denied...same goes if you have multiple stamps in your passport. If migraciones does issue an extension in these cases they usually (if not always) write "ultma prorroga" over the stamp. Nonetheless, even fairly recently, some members have posted that when they tried to get an additional extension at migraciones they were simply told they have to leave and reenter the country (thus getting a new 90 day visa).

I don't think there now is (or will be in the future) any problem for someone who spends 90 days in Argentina, gets an extension, leaves the country for a while (at least a couple weeks if not 30 days) and then returns. The problem is for those who are obviously living in Argentina more than six months per year and do not have temporary residency. There have been members who have posted about having multiple pages of stamps in their passports and haven't had a problem. Enforcement of the 2010 decree which gave immigration officials police powers has been minimal and may continue to be minimal for some time.

Or it could be religiously enforced at any time and without any (additional) warning

 

[JamJam]

I think one issue that doesn't get much attention in the permatourist discussion is that of taxation.

If you are living in Argentina more than 180 days of the year you are a tax resident and must pay taxes on the money you are earning/spending (in addition to the IVA you pay on many purchases (and are supposed to be paying on all of them).

If you are working illegally in Argentina and not paying taxes on that income, you are not "giving (the) money to the country" that is required by law.<p>
The foreign income requirements for the%2

Yep thats true, but how many Argentineans work in negro or don't pay all the tax they should?

 

[Somewhereinba]

I wonder if their system shows how many days of the year you have been in the country over a period of time - it would make these cases a lot easier to process? Would they reject you if you had been in the country say 130 days of the year but entered/left 6-10 times and thus have a passport full of stamps.

 

[Rich One]

You are confused. One thing is tourism, another is immigration. You are not tourists, you are all immigrants.

Each country has its laws..!! But is like they refuse entry to people that live in Tijuana and enter every day to work in the USA??

 

[syngirl]

You could also look at it this way:

Whats the difference between a perm-tourist and a Bolivian working in negro? (not meaning to sound like a Cronica joke)

I don't think perm-tourists really cause the country much harm and in total perhaps they add something.

I would guess that its more harmful to receive huge amounts of unskilled immigrants from poorer South America countries that work in negro than a few thousand perm-tourists

Um, a Bolivian has right to live in Argentina permanently, as they are a from a bordering country. That's the difference. Most "permatourists" are not from bordering countries are they? Therefore don't actually have legal right to live here.