Want to expat! Hungry for knowledge

Goshinki said:
Why? How much research have you done?

I have to ask you the same question. Sounds like your knowledge of Argentina comes solely based from your extremist blog sources. You need to start reading beyond the blogs to get some idea of this country. Use google translate and you can at least start to read some stories as written by locals.

Argentina is not paradise. No country is.

Since your takes on the USA sound a bit extremist, I'll give you a an extremist take (though factual) on Argentina today:

It is not actually what you would consider a strong economy (and I mean you in particular) -- not unless you consider a dependence on China continuing to buy up all your soy a solid basis for an economy. (And do you really want to put your eggs in the basket of Argentina that are depending on China to keep their accounts full, while redirecting huge proportions of their agricultural production away from foods and meats for their people and into the soy markets? Meat production has fallen so much in Argentina that there is talk of importing beef from Brasil)

Argentina is a land of 30% inflation (despite the official government number stating it is only 12%). It is a land whose president has seen her personal wealth rocket from 3 million USD to 25 million USD in just the few years that she (and her husband) took office. She is a president who retains a personal business advisor that she consults before making any political decision to see if it is going to help her investment portfolio.

Argentina is a land that could at any moment essentially be taken hostage by a powerful union. In the past few months we have seen numerous threats of complete shutdown of the trucking/transportation industry if the government doesn't give into their demands. In a country where there are practically no rail lines, this means that we are dependent on the good will of a criminal union leader to decide whether or not food products will be delivered to our shelves, whether or not there will be gas in the gas stations, whether or not there will be medications in the pharmacies, and whether or not newspapers will be delivered to the news stands. In the past few months alone we have seen shortages of products on the shelves, shortages of gas, and the blockade of the delivery of newspapers.

Argentina is a country that uses natural gas for heating and cooking. We are coming into winter. The country is not even able to provide heat in the schools of this nation. Since Argentina does not produce enough natural gas it is reliant on a good relation with Evo Morales, that puppet of Chavez, to send us enough gas down the pipelines so we can make it through winter. May I remind you that most of this nation does not fall into a sub tropical or tropical climate? 13 million people in the area surrounding Buenos Aires this morning woke up to 2 degrees celsius, 1 month before winter officially begins. A lot of those people do not have gas lines into their homes, they have to buy propane tanks. A lot of these people suffer their way through the winter with barely any heat (they must make a choice between cooking their food and heating the house). Children will sit suffering the cold throughout the winter wishing that the broken panes of glass on their public schools could at least be repaired so that the -5 degree winds didn't blow right through them.

This is a nation that in what you term a "strong economy" regularly sees shortages of staples such as dairy products, sugar, butter, cereals and grains from the shelves of supermarkets. Where notices are posted in supermarkets telling you that you are only currently allowed to buy 2 of one product, where you can go for days or weeks not being able to find a product that has always been on the shelves. And this is in a time of a "strong economy" -- imagine what it would be like if that economy worsened.

This is a nation that has yet been able to ensure that its' poorer regions have access to basic services - potable water for instance. Where in the north several families must share access to a single tap or pump, where fights break out over access to the water. Where maternal and infant mortality rates soar beyond those of a supposedly developed nation. Where doctors lack the basic supplies necessary to save the lives of their patients.

Now, someone like you, with your extremist views of America, will probably say that this is just an extremist description of Argentina. It is a description of a real Argentina that does exist, but without any of the positives included. This is the same as what your descriptions of the USA have done.

All countries have their problems. Don't believe that Argentina is simply a country of "gorgeous countryside, strong economy, bountiful resources and kind people." It is also a country with extreme problems, malnourishment, poor access to resources, extreme corruption in government, and unions that could put a stranglehold on your access to the basics.

If someone started writing about Argentina from the same angle as the blogs you're reading about the USA, believe me, this place would sound like hell on earth.

By the way, I wonder if the pictures of the gorgeous countrysides of Argentina have included any like this one attached from Santiago del Estero. This is the "Real Argentina".
santiago_del_estero.jpg
 
Goshinki said:
Hello!


in fact, quite often I can barely understand the ENGLISH people speak to me through the drive-thru intercom at McDonalds where I work...


I'm sorry, one more thought -- I find it hilariously ironic that someone who is so afraid of the destruction and upheaval that the USA could face in the future works at that corporate monster, McDonalds!!!

LOL I'm sorry but maybe before you flee the USA you should look a little closer to home and instead of working for that beast McDonald's that has entirely reshaped the agricultural industry in the USA and is responsible for creating products that are ruining the health of your nation, you should start smaller -- find yourself a job with a responsible employer, mom-and-pop style, instead of working for one of the beasts that people like you should be against entirely!
 
syngirl said:
I'm sorry, one more thought -- I find it hilariously ironic that someone who is so afraid of the destruction and upheaval that the USA could face in the future works at that corporate monster, McDonalds!!!

LOL I'm sorry but maybe before you flee the USA you should look a little closer to home and instead of working for that beast McDonald's that has entirely reshaped the agricultural industry in the USA and is responsible for creating products that are ruining the health of your nation, you should start smaller -- find yourself a job with a responsible employer, mom-and-pop style, instead of working for one of the beasts that people like you should be against entirely!

I've worked for many corporate monsters, including Walmart. Small businesses barely exist in the United States anymore. I don't enjoy it, it's life. It's work. I need money. You think I feel good about all the food I throw out? If you can call it food. I wouldn't call pieces of corn-fed cow guts food. I enjoy none of it. It's bullshit. I'm not trying to change the world, I'm trying to survive. Everyone on this thread can make fun of me all they want but soon the Hitlerian take-over of the United States, and who knows where else, will be clear to all of you. And you'll say damn, he was right.

Your other post I find to be enlightening. That's the kind of understanding I came here for, so thank you for your perspective. While it may be no paradise but it doesn't change the impending doom here in the States.

So if you're all telling me Argentina isn't all it's cracked up to be then why did you all go there?
 
Perhaps you will enjoy the blood sausage and cow intestines (typical Argentine BBQ) more apealing than the McDonalds junk.

Most that are here more than a year have family ties here and would not stick around if not for their loved ones.
 
Goshinki said:
So if you're all telling me Argentina isn't all it's cracked up to be then why did you all go there?

I originally came in 2005 for a 3 month visit (I work from home so brought the job with me). I extended. Later I met my now husband. We like Argentina but we're in process for his permanent residency for Canada. We at least want to have a choice at to whether or not we stay here when the economy here goes tits up (it's pretty much a when not an if in Argentina).

I didn't ever come down here thinking it was a permanent deal. 6 years later I still don't feel like it's permanent. I think a lot of people come down here thinking it's going to be their permanent piece of paradise and most don't make it past the 12 month mark, and those that do are often angry/annoyed/looking for a way out (just read this board and you'll see!),

When you come, come with a return ticket in hand. You may never use it, but it's good to have a backup (and a lot of airlines won't let you fly without anyway).

As far as visa options go, I think the response from the embassy is basically going to be "you're sh$% out of luck" - just get the tourist visa, it's what I did, it's what lots did. At a certain point you'll know whether or not you're actually going to stay here -- then you can contact Bajo_Cero from this board.
 
So you may choose to go to Canada if things get bad in Argentina huh? You know I looked closely at Canada, and I have a friend in British Columbia. My "extremist website" wouldn't really approve. But the rural parts must be so nice. I just can't picture the government or military going up that far to screw with people.

You've given me a lot to think about.
 
syngirl said:
Argentina is a country that uses natural gas for heating and cooking. We are coming into winter.
This is a good reason to have a wood burning fireplace and an entire winter's supply of wood on hand.
syngirl said:
This is a nation that in what you term a "strong economy" regularly sees shortages of staples such as dairy products, sugar, butter, cereals and grains from the shelves of supermarkets. Where notices are posted in supermarkets telling you that you are only currently allowed to buy 2 of one product, where you can go for days or weeks not being able to find a product that has always been on the shelves. And this is in a time of a "strong economy" -- imagine what it would be like if that economy worsened.

This is a good reason to have at least a year's supply of "staples" (rice, beans, pasta, flour, sugar, canned fruits and vegetables, oil, tp, soap, etc.) on hand.

syngirl said:
By the way, I wonder if the pictures of the gorgeous countrysides of Argentina have included any like this one attached from Santiago del Estero. This is the "Real Argentina".
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Here is my "real" Argentina. There are two 25 X 50 (1250 mtrs2) lots for sale next to me.
 

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I just don't understand, maybe one could consider this guy and his website to be on the extremist side but he does have a lot of data in the form of graphs and maps, with references, and they simply don't paint the same picture as Syngirl. I'm not saying Syngirl is wrong... but he notions that Argentina is not dependent on food imports, there is enough water for everyone, the people are libertarian, there's no pollution the cost of living is low, violence is low... Its this data he uses to call it the most survivable place in the world. Syngirl makes it sound practically 2nd or even 3rd world O_O

Did you see Steve? Trolls hijacked my other thread. But I did make a little checklist there I wanted to run by you. :)
 
As an Argentinian, I must say that whoever considers Argentina as something different than 3rd world country has some serious credibility issues :)
 
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