Want to expat! Hungry for knowledge
- Thread starter Goshinki
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Goshinki said:That's what I was thinking, that basically perhaps people here were just having a tough time adjusting, or suffering from culture shock. I'm glad someone has something positive to say.
I really have heard that the cost of living is really just so low, even if the wages are lower, the cost of food and other basics is a fraction of what you'd find in the U.S. Is it true?
No, that is not true. It was true about 5 years ago (maybe slightly less) but inflation means that prices (food, etc) are often the same, if not more, than in Europe and the US. You will not get a pound of anything for 10 cents. I'm not from the US but a friend of mine came to visit a couple of months ago and commented that it was far more expensive to eat frugally in Argentina than over there.
I think that the only prices that are cheaper here now is rent (compared to living in a capital city in Europe or a major city in the US) - but that's if you have a guarantee and utilities...I honestly can't think of anything else. And generally, you'll be earning a lot less here than in the US.
Argentina is a great place to live, but it is not easy and moving here will require a lot of planning and some savings...
I think the people on this board are very honest for the most part. They are very good at giving you the cold, hard truth about this place. It´s great and it´s a mess at the same time. There is a lot to love (art, wine, Argentines etc) and a lot to complain about (corruption, pollution, inflation, Argentines etc). But, it is important to take the bad things into consideration and that is where people from this board can really help. They can provide more preparation and bring up issues you might not have considered. Generally the travel and tourist information that is out there paints a rosier picture of Argentina than the reality at the moment. Luckily, this board exists for people that want to find out more before they come.
Yea? I was wondering if perhaps people were just comparing the current prices to how they were 5 years ago just in Argentina, so for example if the prices went from 10 cents to 20 cents, they've doubled there, and so everyone will be up in arms. But 10 cents or 20 cents it's still less than 2 dollars for the same thing in the United States.
But since you say you had a friend that experienced it first hand, I trust you. So maybe the prices suck and whatever else but perhaps it still could stand to reason to be considered a good place as far as survival is concerned.... i.e. not being involved in World War III, having a low overall population density, low occurence of natural disasters.
But since you say you had a friend that experienced it first hand, I trust you. So maybe the prices suck and whatever else but perhaps it still could stand to reason to be considered a good place as far as survival is concerned.... i.e. not being involved in World War III, having a low overall population density, low occurence of natural disasters.
Ohh no, here comes the price discussion again. I can only tell you about my personal experiences with rising prices here. I went to the grocery store last night. I don´t like going there right now and try to avoid going as much as possible. 
The deodorant I wanted to try was about $6 (U.S.). Mouthwash was about $4 (U.S.). I had to buy some sauces for something I want to cook this week that were all about what I would pay there or, more. I also had to buy a new yoga mat recently. After refusing to buy from one of the places selling them for around 50-60 U.S., I finally found a good one a little cheaper but, still at least what I would pay in the U.S. Wages here are usually much less than in the U.S. so, I earn less and pay the same or more for certain items. Not all items are equivalent to U.S. prices (some fruits & veggies are much cheaper and taste better). Again, I get by with less here and actually like living with less stuff.
To me the increases are really incredible though and a bit scary. But, I don´t have the history my family here does. They have more experience dealing with this. Some of them tell stories of when they would go buy milk in the mornings because the price by sundown was out of their budget. I have been in and out of this country over the past several years. Five years ago everything was much less than it is now. I think those that have ways to buffer the impact of rising prices don´t notice the increase as much. Some people here are earning foreign currency from work online, their own businesses, or from a company from back home. That helps a lot.
The deodorant I wanted to try was about $6 (U.S.). Mouthwash was about $4 (U.S.). I had to buy some sauces for something I want to cook this week that were all about what I would pay there or, more. I also had to buy a new yoga mat recently. After refusing to buy from one of the places selling them for around 50-60 U.S., I finally found a good one a little cheaper but, still at least what I would pay in the U.S. Wages here are usually much less than in the U.S. so, I earn less and pay the same or more for certain items. Not all items are equivalent to U.S. prices (some fruits & veggies are much cheaper and taste better). Again, I get by with less here and actually like living with less stuff.
To me the increases are really incredible though and a bit scary. But, I don´t have the history my family here does. They have more experience dealing with this. Some of them tell stories of when they would go buy milk in the mornings because the price by sundown was out of their budget. I have been in and out of this country over the past several years. Five years ago everything was much less than it is now. I think those that have ways to buffer the impact of rising prices don´t notice the increase as much. Some people here are earning foreign currency from work online, their own businesses, or from a company from back home. That helps a lot.
I just want to clarify from my post earlier about Argentina. I don't have an undying hatred of this country. What I was trying to demonstrate is that it is just as easy to paint any country as a hell hole as it is to paint it as paradise on earth.
Obviously the OPs sources on the USA are painting the USA as a place that is on a one way trip to destruction and Argentina as a Nirvana (with no pollution! strong economy! low cost of living!), but it is just as easy to talk about Argentina in a negative light only. That no pollution thing can be proven as a lie just from the pic I posted -- 1 hours drive from Santiago del Estero to Termas del Rio Hondo across open desert strewn with plastic bags, bottles, tires, garbage everywhere).
What I'm trying to say to the OP, is take everything you read with a grain of salt. Both what you read on the USA, and what you read on Argentina. And read from more than just one point of view.
Re prices -- Goshinki, think more like prices on some goods being up 300% in 5 years (ie a very basic product here: empanadas in my barrio 5 years ago were .80 centavos each -- now 5 pesos each). And wages go up only by official govt rate -- ie 12% increases -- so it becomes harder and harder to keep up with the margin of difference.
Steve -- don't think I'm on a hate campaign against Argentina -- if you read my post I do state that what I'm writing is an extremist post though based on fact. And it is. All are facts in there, it just shows how easy it is to write about a subject using facts and make sure that your reader draws conclusions that are either by and large negative or by and large positive.
Obviously the OPs sources on the USA are painting the USA as a place that is on a one way trip to destruction and Argentina as a Nirvana (with no pollution! strong economy! low cost of living!), but it is just as easy to talk about Argentina in a negative light only. That no pollution thing can be proven as a lie just from the pic I posted -- 1 hours drive from Santiago del Estero to Termas del Rio Hondo across open desert strewn with plastic bags, bottles, tires, garbage everywhere).
What I'm trying to say to the OP, is take everything you read with a grain of salt. Both what you read on the USA, and what you read on Argentina. And read from more than just one point of view.
Re prices -- Goshinki, think more like prices on some goods being up 300% in 5 years (ie a very basic product here: empanadas in my barrio 5 years ago were .80 centavos each -- now 5 pesos each). And wages go up only by official govt rate -- ie 12% increases -- so it becomes harder and harder to keep up with the margin of difference.
Steve -- don't think I'm on a hate campaign against Argentina -- if you read my post I do state that what I'm writing is an extremist post though based on fact. And it is. All are facts in there, it just shows how easy it is to write about a subject using facts and make sure that your reader draws conclusions that are either by and large negative or by and large positive.
MizzMarr
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It's true what people are saying about the prices of food, etc. Many of the published articles are using far outdated information as a basis but it has no bearing on reality anymore. In a "cheap" supermarket in my non-tourist neighborhood, a package of 3 skinless chicken breasts costs a minimum of $30 pesos. I saw a whole rotisserie chicken the other day going for $75 pesos (when I used to be in a rush to cook I'd occasionally buy one but for $25 pesos). one sheet of fresh raviolis costs $12 pesos. Some vegetables and fruits are inexpensive (6 pesos for a kilo of bananas or tomatoes), but you'd be surprised by the costs of some average pantry staples. A can of tomatoes costs $6 pesos, and a can of refried beans these days (an import, Argentines don't eat refried beans typically) now costs $17 pesos in the stores (when I arrived in 2006 we could get cans for $4-6 pesos). Things are more expensive by at least a couple of pesos/item in the more touristic neighborhoods which is where you'll be more likely to find temporary/shared housing. Everything has at least doubled in price since I have arrived, some things have tripled or more. You'd best be careful about your calculations about food, it really is equivalent or more expensive than in the States. I can personally vouch for that. Additionally, I hear Europeans all the time saying how cheap places like Berlin, Amsterdam, and even Japan, etc., are in comparison.
Also, it's important to know that many walk around and see ANY tourist/foreigner (it doesn't matter who you are or what your intentions are) as a walking ATM to be taken advantage of. It takes awhile to learn the ropes and figure out how to get around that, but it still happens occasionally even to me in a neighborhood (again, non-touristy) where I've lived for a couple of years.
What everybody else is saying about pollution, garbage in the streets, corruption, etc., is also true. It's very eye opening. That's not to say you shouldn't come, but you seem pretty idealistic about what life is like here, and... well, I guess you'll figure out where the truth lies when you arrive.
Also, it's important to know that many walk around and see ANY tourist/foreigner (it doesn't matter who you are or what your intentions are) as a walking ATM to be taken advantage of. It takes awhile to learn the ropes and figure out how to get around that, but it still happens occasionally even to me in a neighborhood (again, non-touristy) where I've lived for a couple of years.
What everybody else is saying about pollution, garbage in the streets, corruption, etc., is also true. It's very eye opening. That's not to say you shouldn't come, but you seem pretty idealistic about what life is like here, and... well, I guess you'll figure out where the truth lies when you arrive.
syngirl said:
No worries, I see what you're saying. I needed to get the big picture. That's why I joined this forum. Part of the pollution thing according to the site I reference www.escapetheusanow.com is that it's in the less populated southern hemisphere, which overall has less pollution. Water pollutants in the ocean do not cross hemispheres but they do spread laterally across the world.
So, I'm glad I got the whole picture on what it really means to move down there. I'm not that discouraged though, I still see the intrinsic value of living there as a strict matter of self-preservation, although I should reopen my mind to some other possibilities such as Canada