Welcome to Venezuela

[ndcj]

Number 75 out of 169 and on the list of countries with "High human development (developing countries) - all according to your own link.

Not only that, but they changed the methodology used between the 2009 and 2010 reports. You can't directly compare these two indexes.

They changed the formula to remove adult literacy as a metric and replace it with "mean years of schooling" and messed with the already flawed purchasing power parity metric.

In a country like Venezuela where, whether you agree with it or not, there are very significant government subsidies on essential items, you can't blindly compare PPP with countries like the US where you can just hide the lack of access to essentials by the have-nots simply by having a high median income.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

Sorry my mistake, but 75th and sinking fast doesn't seem to be much to crow about.

Where I come from, 75th out of 169 is better than average. If you want to demonstrate your 'sinking fast' proposition, you'll need to account for it against a change of methodology between the two years.

I hold no brief for Chavez's Venezuela so I don't know why I am bothering here.

Oh yes I do. Because I'm trying to encourage you to make your case with a little more substance and a little less spin.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

A democracy is more than voting for one guy, its separation of powers, an independent judiciary, rule of law, a functioning legislature, freedom of the press and expression. Hugo has pretty much hollowed out all the institutions that make a democracy. A better question is why you think it is a democracy.

This is the Gouchobob definition of a democracy. If you don't want us to think you are setting up your own definitions to suit your own arguments, you might like to find a well-respected source that agrees with you. After that, you might like to offer an example of a country that passes the test. Let me help you with that: even Switzerland fails on your score though Sweden might possibly just scrape through.

 

[ReemsterCARP]

This is the Gouchobob definition of a democracy. If you don't want us to think you are setting up your own definitions to suit your own arguments, you might like to find a well-respected source that agrees with you. After that, you might like to offer an example of a country that passes the test. Let me help you with that: even Switzerland fails on your score though Sweden might possibly just scrape through.

The Netherlands...

 

[gouchobob]

Where I come from, 75th out of 169 is better than average. If you want to demonstrate your 'sinking fast' proposition, you'll need to account for it against a change of methodology between the two years.

I hold no brief for Chavez's Venezuela so I don't know why I am bothering here.

Oh yes I do. Because I'm trying to encourage you to make your case with a little more substance and a little less spin.

According to the listing the rank 75th and fell 17 places since the last survey change in methodology or not. This is good enough for me and I bet most people here. If you want to play Doctor Statistics be my guest.

 

[gouchobob]

This is the Gouchobob definition of a democracy. If you don't want us to think you are setting up your own definitions to suit your own arguments, you might like to find a well-respected source that agrees with you. After that, you might like to offer an example of a country that passes the test. Let me help you with that: even Switzerland fails on your score though Sweden might possibly just scrape through.

Nonsense, never said it was a definition these are only attributes of a democracy which Venezuela is sadly lacking.

 

[ndcj]

According to the listing the rank 75th and fell 17 places since the last survey change in methodology or not. This is good enough for me and I bet most people here. If you want to play Doctor Statistics be my guest.

This is the debating equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la". Game over.

 

[gouchobob]

This is the debating equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "la la la". Game over.

This actually getting a little tiresome. Ok, you think Hugo is wonderful. Let's look at where Venuezula ranked on the UN index when Hugo took power and where they rank today.

(Drum roll) In 1999 Hugo's first year in power Venuezula ranked 48th and today ranks 75th a fall of 27 places. In addition it has fallen in relation to most other South American countries. It is now ranked below many that a few years ago they were above.

"In 1999, the first year of Hugo Chávez in power, Venezuela occupied position 48 in the ranking of the Human Development Index, which measures the quality of life in a society. This meant that Venezuelans enjoyed a quality of life higher than, say, the peoples of Panama, Mexico, Colombia, Cuba, Albania, Estonia, Croatia, Thailand, Bulgaria and Saint Kitts and Nevis, among many other countries. Today, in 2005, Venezuela occupies place 75 in the ranking and is below all of the countries listed above. It is also below countries like Libya, Grenada, Trinidad Tobago and Costa Rica, to name just a few This collapse of 27 places in the ranking of the Human Development Index that Venezuela has suffered has two reasons: one, the fact that some countries are developing their quality of life faster than Venezuela and, two, the fact that Venezuela has actually declined in some of the key areas which make up the index, such as health, education and poverty levels. If we envision this index as a race, it is clear that some countries are leaving us behind while we go sluggishly around the oval."

The above is excerpted from the link below. Its from 2005 but it's still valid today.

http://vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200509121007

Ok, again explain why Hugo is wonderful and why their rankings on this index have dropped like a rock under his leadership.

 

[elhombresinnombre]

The Netherlands...

I'd be happy with the Netherlands, you'd be happy with the Netherlands but I don't think it passes the Gouchobobtest because it is a Constitutional Monarchy with limitations on the powers of the judiciary. My point anyway is that the Gouchobobtest is disingenuous. Of course Venezuela (with whom I have no truck) will fail but so will the United States, the United Kingdom and almost anywhere else that calls itself a democracy. But I agree with ndcj: debating's no fun if you don't play by the rules.

 

[French jurist]

GouchoBob, can you please point me to links showing the poverty level in Venezuela in the 1990s, in the early 2000s and now ?