What does Kirchner winning the Primaries mean to you...

[Philsword]

OK, Cristina's fight against the Clarin Group is stupid. Her usurping the football games and putting them on public TV is probably illegal. In turn, the Clarin Group must have turned her books and actions inside-out and has not found anything on her. Her first step against the "agricultural oligarchy" was ill-considered. However, since Cristina took office, she has an unparelled record for human rights that cannot be challenged anywhere in the world (not just in LA):

The only successful prosecutions against military dictators (Bussi, Menendez, etc) in the long and sometimes inglorious history of Latin America.

Argentina is now the only country (along with Canada?) in the Americas to offer full rights to gays.

She has supported the grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo even when it was discovered they were not squeaky clean.

She has supported indigenous causes and other marginalized groups.

She increased pensions for retired people.

The poverty rate has dropped from 40% to 21% since 2007 with similar reductions in infant mortality and crime rates.

In short, she has done a great deal to be a voice to those who previously did not have a voice. She has raised the standard of living while simultaneously growing the economy at a staggering 8% per year.

Unemployment here is 7.2% while in the USA it is festering at 9.2%.

The same people who are complaining about Cristina are probably the same people who think that Social Security should be tapped into to help pay for W's enormous war debt and probably the same people who supported a bailout (TARP) to the US's top banks in 2008-09.

I am proud to live in a country where the elderly and marginalized are not forgotten. The streets are safer and Argentines have more discretionary cash to spend than ever.

She is subsidizing the oil industry to keep petro prices lower. She is doing things for bigger business but perhaps she is not helping you the way George W. did when he was in office. Perhaps if she were lining your pockets the way most politicians do, you'd be OK with her.

"This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." - President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953

According to this Cristina is really the new messiah. I think most people who object to her do on the grounds of wholesale corruption practiced by the Kirchner family and the questionable economic policies they have instituted. Almost all of the economic figures out of the government are suspect as well including the unemployment rate. My guess is that during the next term the chickens will come home to roost. We will find out in the next couple of years if all this progress you describe is sustainable and if she is in fact the second coming, or just another half-baked populist peronist politician who in the end just led Argentina further down the road of economic decline and failure.

 

[xibeca]

The Kirchner winning the Primaries, to me means continuing cleaning up the mess that the failed neo-liberal policies created.

Poverty is down drastically and the economy is booming. No wonder people will vote for Christina. I would too.

 

[citygirl]

Can someone please find me an impartial verification for the statement that "poverty is down from 40% to 21%" in 3 years?

I'm certainly open to reading an independent assesment that states that but it contradicts the data I see.

Same as with the unemployment figures.

 

[Philsword]

Can someone please find me an impartial verification for the statement that "poverty is down from 40% to 21%" in 3 years?

I'm certainly open to reading an independent assesment that states that but it contradicts the data I see.

Same as with the unemployment figures.

These are probably Indec numbers they are using. It widely known that inflation stats are cooked but it's also believed that unemployment and poverty levels are understated as well. Apparently the government is afraid of something, otherwise why doctor the numbers and threaten to fine and jail those who provide independent estimates? Could it be that the real numbers aren't as good as they are reporting and would contradict other assertions they are making about the economy? Does anybody find this wholesale distortion of economic data and threats to those who report otherwise as inconsistent with a democratic society?

 

[citymike]

Does anybody find this wholesale distortion of economic data and threats to those who report otherwise as inconsistent with a democratic society?

This interests me. I believe the threat was to fine those who provided inflation figures without providing the data on which those inflation figures are based. That is reasonable, I think.

 

[Philsword]

This interests me. I believe the threat was to fine those who provided inflation figures without providing the data on which those inflation figures are based. That is reasonable, I think.

That's their rather weak explanation. Its obvious the real purpose was to silence other sources of information. This would be consistent with authoritarian regimes that control what information the public is allowed to see. Again this is inconsistent with a democratic society.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ac2f3b10-2fc2-11e0-91f8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1WYLedxlh

 

[John.St]

This interests me. I believe the threat was to fine those who provided inflation figures without providing the data on which those inflation figures are based. That is reasonable, I think.

Argentina’s “Congress inflation index” reached 1.62% in July, confirming well over 23% for the last twelve months according to the latest release from the Lower House.

http://en.mercopress.com/2011/08/09...index-for-july-1.62-doubles-the-official-rate

 

[citymike]

That's their rather weak explanation.

It seems a perfectly reasonable explanation to me. If someone is providing information they they should explain how they got the raw data and how it is structured.

Its obvious the real purpose was to silence other sources of information. This would be consistent with authoritarian regimes that control what information the public is allowed to see. Again this is inconsistent with a democratic society.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/ac2f3b10-2fc2-11e0-91f8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1WYLedxlh

From the article:
Ecolatina has trademarked the methodology it uses, and while it will answer the questions, it will not reveal exactly where it surveys the 25,000 prices it collects per month, Mr Álvarez said.

Do you know if Ecolatina was fined?

 

[Philsword]

It seems a perfectly reasonable explanation to me. If someone is providing information they they should explain how they got the raw data and how it is structured.



From the article:
Ecolatina has trademarked the methodology it uses, and while it will answer the questions, it will not reveal exactly where it surveys the 25,000 prices it collects per month, Mr Álvarez said.

Do you know if Ecolatina was fined?

Well you can believe the government's fairy tales if you want to. Apparently those that did let the government take a look were found to have (no surprise) used methods that lacked scientific rigor. This is about as transparent an attempt to silence their critics as you can get.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703518704576259281697697752.html

Also Ecolatina was fined for apparently using unscientific methods.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?CategoryId=14093&ArticleId=393405

 

[elalancito]

These are probably Indec numbers they are using. It widely known that inflation stats are cooked but it's also believed that unemployment and poverty levels are understated as well. Apparently the government is afraid of something, otherwise why doctor the numbers and threaten to fine and jail those who provide independent estimates? Could it be that the real numbers aren't as good as they are reporting and would contradict other assertions they are making about the economy? Does anybody find this wholesale distortion of economic data and threats to those who report otherwise as inconsistent with a democratic society?

The poverty level of 21% comes from a recent report from Mercosur. Along with Uruguay at 21%, it is the lowest in the bloc. Check Mercosur's numbers from 2007 to verify the 40% number. The unemployment numbers come from a recent report from the 2nd quarter released by this government and widely reported in Nación and Clarín and other media outlets.