What fresh insanity is this?

[nicoenarg]

Wow I see idiocy is not in short supply at all!

 

[Iznogud]

It's not a question of choosing the lesser evil but to make in sort that none of those "options" are allowed to exist.

None of them should be tolerated by the People. Revolting is a good choice of words.

Do not trade Freedom for (a false sense of) Safety, you will lose both.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[ElQueso]

We live here. Not the US. Not other countries.

Those of us who are here long term actually tend to think of things that happen in the home country in more of a disconnected fashion (well, I do anyway) than what's going on right here, right in front of us, as we live out lives.

Of course we have concern about what's happening in the home country. But if we want to talk about that, we would go to a thread that is discussing problems in the home country, or in a thread that is comparing things between multiple countries perhaps.

Here, we were talking about something that is really spooky, and concerns all of us who have roots here or are considering putting them down. The last thing we want to do is have to start wandering off in comparing the US to Argentina just because the US has problems too.

To me, the whole idea of what the government has done with education HERE, is very concerning to me. It should concern anyone who is living here, not as a month-or-two tourist, but certainly even if you are planning on leaving in 6 months or a year. It should be listed with the other concerns about the way things are going HERE.

I guess what I'm saying is, these things can be serious business.

I talked to my sister-in-law earlier today when I first read this thread and asked her if she knew who La Campora or Batayon Militante were. She knew La Campora, but not Batayon. I told her why I was asking and asked her if their school had any visits by these groups or others who were giving some kind of political seminars or discussions, during or after school.

She said no, but she was very alarmed that this might happen. I told her not to worry, but let me know if something like that did happen.

I worry about what may come here. I've been mentioning for some months that I think Cristina is trying for a power play that extends beyond her current presidency. Import/export restrictions, flaunting trade agreements, giving speeches extolling the virtues of government and business partnerships so that Argentina can produce what it needs without so much from the outside, cracking down heavily on currencies and putting in place credit card restrictions, etc, taking over YPF (have they paid for it yet?) and trying to bring in either Chevron or China to help develop their oil fields...the list goes on.

I think Cristina believes she can generate enough oil revenue to fuel her pipe dreams.

Now they're may be trying to indoctrinate kids illegally and making it illegal to have a good way to report what is against the law.

Keep your eyes open, this isn't the US, nor Europe, nor any other government that at least pretends to respect the rule of law.

That's why were talking about Argentina here, not worrying about comparing it to other places. Our lives and livelihoods are affected by what happens here.

 

[Gringoboy]

Quite so.
I have no problem in comparisons with other countries such as USA, but in this respect, it's out of context.
The important point here is what Argentina is becoming and more important of all, what it will become in the VERY NEAR FUTURE.
You'd had to have been living under a rock not to notice the insidious 'process' that commenced a few months ago.
The writing is on the wall and there is fear and all that that ghastly word implies.
This regime.....for that is what it is............has absolute power and it's tentacles will enter the lives of all of us, children included.
They have no barriers and they know it.

 

[PhilipDT]

But which is worse having your kid brainwashed for a day in school or learning that he was thrown in some military dungeon never to be seen again?

The later is definitely worse but considering that we live in Argentina NOT the USA the former is far more likely to happen. I don't think its sanctimonious at all to call a spade a spade.

 

[John.St]

In my home country most schools have a day every year discussing politics as a natural part of the education to become adult citizens with the right to vote.

All parties are invited to present their programs to 6th graders and above, followed by discussions and often an 'election'.

Most of the kiddies vote for a left leaning party - as the saying goes: "If you are not leftist at 16, then you are heartless - if you still are at 40, then you are brainless

 

[John.St]

Wow I see idiocy is not in short supply at all!

Intelligence is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for every one thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

René Descartes (1596–1650)

 

[John.St]

this isn't the US, nor Europe, nor any other government that at least pretends to respect the rule of law.

A coup d'état a day keeps the doctor away - 'cause he goes into exile

 

[sergio]

Yes man, I understand that. However, what was the context of my initial comment? People were horrified by the news of the indoctrination in the schools and wondering how Argentina tolerate such madness, as if this was the horrors of the horrors? I just pointed out that, despite the fact that the news was indeed outrageous, Argentina does not have the monopoly on madness. Yes, Argentina has a lot of weird shit going on. But people make it sound like everywhere else was normal and dandy while people here are batshit crazy.
However, once I point out some the idiosyncrasies of American society, people start climbing on their horses and getting offended.

I am as guilty as anyone of sometimes coming down really hard on Argentina. And I think I am wrong when I do that too. It is understandable. Hell, sometimes I get frustrated with the way things are here and just want to vent too. But I think it is important to keep things in perspective. Yes, indoctrination in schools suck. So does having a Soviet sounding Dept. Of Homeland Security and the Patriot Act. An Argentinian might be as horrified about those things as we are of political indoctrination on their schools. You and your political views might have no issue with the Patriot Act or the Dept. Of Homeland Security. Many Argentinians also see nothing wrong with the "La Campora". Who is right?
I just find it weird sometimes that we can judge them so harshly while forgetting that a lot of the things we do in the US might seem weird or outright tyrannical to them. As an example, most Argentinians have a real hard time understanding how Americans can deal so naturally and calmly with institutionalized torture by the US government. For them, who dealt with years of military dictatorships and brutal state sponsored torture, it is very hard to comprehend how Americans in general can so easily tolerate and approve such practices by our government.
This is just one example, there are many others. I think we should just relax a bit and at least try to be a little less judgmental towards them. After all, our society is less than perfect too.

Why should Argentines find it hard to comprehend when most Argentines supported military governments in their own country? Do you think the military governments stayed in power without widespread approval? When they finally got fed up, after Falklands War, the people threw the military out

 

[John.St]

- and from the beginning of the Falklands War and until the penultimate day of it, most supported the military dictatorship.

Ernesto Sábato, a staunch opponent to the Junta, wrote April 29th in 'La Nacion': "In Argentina it is not a military dictatorship that is fighting. It is the whole people, her women, her children, the old people, regardless of their political persuasion. Opponents to the regime like myself are fighting for our dignity, fighting to extricate the last vestiges of colonialism. Don't be mistaken, Europe, it is not a dictatorship that is fighting for the Malvinas; it is the whole nation."

Federic Lorenz (2011) in 'Representations of the enemy during Malvinas War': "The disembarkation of April 2 was backed by several sectors of the Argentine society. Even many of the victims of the military dictatorship, in prison or in exile, agreed on the recovery, .."

(in Agustín M. Romero (compiler): "The Question of Malvinas Islands and the Bicentennial of Argentina", Malvinas Parliamentary Observatory Committee, Buenos Aires, 2011. ISBN 978-950-691-076-1 (p. 143). http://alfredoatanasof.com.ar/link_libro/the_question_of%20_malvinas_and_the_bicentennial.pdf ).