What Is Your Political Orientation?

What is your Political Orientation?

  • Marxist-Leninist

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Socialist

    Votes: 5 19.2%
  • Liberal

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Neo-Liberal

    Votes: 3 11.5%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Neo-Conservative

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fascist

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Libertarian

    Votes: 3 11.5%
  • Anarchist

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 19.2%

  • Total voters
    26
The problem with free market policies is that it does not work. If you put two people, companies, or whatever to compete, there will be one that wins, but what about the other? Thats why today we have concentration of enormous fortunes in few hands, we have a minority very, extremely rich, and 2/3 of humanity under the poverty line. Put people to compete in market job, for instance, and while they all work hard to get the job, making it all look better, theres oly one that wins, and the rest is excluded.
Besides, the competition not always work. I recommend to study planned obsolesence as an example of no-competitios}n, but agrrements between companies that are supposed to compete, but they act together, like we have here with supermarkets (they put prices together, they dont compete) or the prepagas (they rise their prices together, especially the 5 bigger Medicus, Swiss Medical, OSDE, Galeno, Omint) they come to an agreement and act agaisnt the government, they press all together, again, they do not compete!.

But what I was saying, is that when you have free market policies, what happens indeed is concentration, is the one that wins winning more, is lots of money in fewer hands, is the big fish eating the small one, concentrating more and morrre each time. And the counterpart, extreme poverty, people with nothing, without a house, without health and education, without a piece of bread to eat. Thats how capitalism works, thats not bad functioning or a drift or something, thats how it works and how it had worked in the last centuries. Capitalism is a poverty factory, we have billions of people under the poverty line, and a bunch of multimillionare that could not spend like the 1% of their fortunes in all their entire lives (and their grandsons life -and living with opulence).


If we dont have this picture in the US and Europe, thats because they have a very strong states (yes: the opposite they preach abroad). They have both big states, with a huge social coverty, with tons of money spent in social programs, with internal market policies, with a very present state. But outside Europe or the US, what we have is very few people that takes every penny, and as a sociologist, the most important thing its that this minority that rules and exploit and abuse and do whatever they want, they do it with, except some few cases, 100% consent. Nobody questions how their social systems are functioning, people, millions of people, including us westerns, see this naturally, see this, extreme opulence and extreme poverty in the same city, as something natural. Well, what Marxism has teached me is exactly this, that all the wealth of these rich people can only come from one place: from the poor!! Theres nothing more complicated here, it is very simple, this is how the system works!! Thats how these societies work.

Bravo, Matias! Extremely well said.

Labor is superior to capital, because labor existed prior to capital. And capital could never have been accumulated, except through exploitation of labor.
 
[...]
Seriously folks, socialists always think that the reason socialism has never worked is because their team of socialists isn't in power: "If my team of socialist were in power it would be milk and honey for everyone." And then they fail again.
[...]
If the goal is to make everyone equally poor (except for the politburo) socialism/communism is the ticket.


What is your definition of socialism/socialist? Maybe you should have defined what you mean with socialism in your poll. Socialism does not equal state socialism - that we had in China, the USSR etc. Communism has never implemented in reality and I think most of the world has realized that it never will be.

Socialism does not necessarily mean getting rid of capitalism or competition.
 
Bravo, Matias! Extremely well said.

Labor is superior to capital, because labor existed prior to capital. And capital could never have been accumulated, except through exploitation of labor.

Well NOW you know; its a ZERO-SUM society :cool:
 
My mistake praising Joe's poll thread. No sooner do I point out what a great opportunity it is for us to get away from the nebulous generalisations, then Joe comes up with this glittering generalisation:
Seriously folks, socialists always think that...
 
Yeah but if you work hard and come up with a better mouse trap, I'm going to feel bad because you have more money than me! Why can't I just sit at home and smoke dope and have what you have?!?!?! :cool:

Seriously folks, socialists always think that the reason socialism has never worked is because their team of socialists isn't in power: "If my team of socialist were in power it would be milk and honey for everyone." And then they fail again.

When China implemented capitalist elements to their still planned economy they increased wealth for everyone. While at the same time making the distribution of wealth more unequal.

If the goal is to make everyone equally poor (except for the politburo) socialism/communism is the ticket.

China is not a free market economy, they have a very strong state. Although it is capitalism, and we now see more inequality, there were 600 millions of campesinos under the poverty line, now they are all working for US corporations... we have new phenomena in China, such as big corruption, a new bussiness class, a new middle class (thats for the big presence of the state)... what is also new is violence, capitalism is very violent, that what provocates!!

I m not for socialism or communism, I think of Marx as an excellent analyst (from economy and politics) but poor predicting future and as a politician, although he had decission, communism had a lot of failures. There was a big gap of what happen to middle class, ideology of the worker class (see Gramsci)...

This system is also destroying nature, not ony is the explotation of the men by men, not only violence among us, it also exterminates nature.. there were never more violent societies as we have it today, clearly sucks the way societies are organised today, the main cause of violence, some studies say, is inequality, plus commercialization of life, each time more and more facets of life are cooptated by capitalism, like human relationships (love), like spare time, like games, sports, etc... everything is like a property, everything being put "in the market"... to compete... how many people win? 1%? what about the rest, the other 99%? how can this way of organise a society can be good?
 
Neo-Liberals in Argentina ?? The Milton Friendship Society?? Read link below Letter from Milton to CFK? Sure he was wrong? :rolleyes:

http://economiaparat...ez-de-kirchner/

The Closing Paragraph! of Milton's Letter;

Some [eighty] years ago, [Argentina], like many other countries, including mine, pursued the wrong route, for good reasons and without malice, errors were committed by good and bad men. The biggest mistake, in my opinion, was to conceive the state as the solver of all problems, to believe that the state can manage other people's money well.....!
 
Bravo, Matias! Extremely well said.

Labor is superior to capital, because labor existed prior to capital. And capital could never have been accumulated, except through exploitation of labor.
Yeah I exploited myself for the last 30ish years to make a little capital that I can now hand over to others and go happily back to exploiting myself, or change my tune and see if I can get someone else to feed me. hmm what to do, what to do???
 
Yeah I exploited myself for the last 30ish years to make a little capital that I can now hand over to others and go happily back to exploiting myself, or change my tune and see if I can get someone else to feed me. hmm what to do, what to do???

Chet, much respect, but you're doing the same thing ElQueso did that led to him getting all insulted and going off on a huge rant. You're taking an observation I made on a macro level, identifying yourself with huge players like international corporations, and then objecting because it doesn't apply to you on a micro level. For him to equate himself with a corporation like Monsanto or Chevron by saying, "I consider myself a foreign investor" was ridiculous. And, without meaning to be offensive, it's also unrealistic for you to take my comments as directed at you personally. You did not exploit yourself, you were exploited.

Of course observations made on a macro level do not always apply on a micro level. Individuals are not corporations, and of course, equating the two will lead to contradictions.
 
Chet, much respect, but you're doing the same thing ElQueso did that led to him getting all insulted and going off on a huge rant. You're taking an observation I made on a macro level, identifying yourself with huge players like international corporations, and then objecting because it doesn't apply to you on a micro level. For him to equate himself with a corporation like Monsanto or Chevron by saying, "I consider myself a foreign investor" was ridiculous. And, without meaning to be offensive, it's also unrealistic for you to take my comments as directed at you personally. You did not exploit yourself, you were exploited.

Of course observations made on a macro level do not always apply on a micro level. Individuals are not corporations, and of course, equating the two will lead to contradictions.
Instead of addressing the merits of his argument you engage in another round of semantic gymnastics - at least you didn't give us Latin terminology this time...

***

Folks the point of this thread is not to determine the best system (we all know that is futile) but to simply discuss the political labels that are out there, how they can be used and in the end to temporarily shelve our differences and have a group hug as fellow expats.

!!! Can't We All Just Get Along !!!
 
I wish anyone would read the few lines of EdRooney and just spend 2 minutes thinking about it instead of firing out more and more generalizations, but I guess sticking with an ideology and just be against anything else is more in style...
 
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