What the hell is a "North American"?

[dr__dawggy]

LOL - Yes, now imagine being a woman and getting called gorda/gordita/gordi - that one still is tough for me to handle - cultural sensitivities, I have them

I don't mind Gringa, it makes me laugh. And I much prefer that to the other nicknames that are out there. One guy I know, they call him Bagre (He's actually quite handsome so I don't know why).

Had to look up the English translation of bagre--Catfish. Unless it means something different in local slang. Sometimes local expressions sound very wierd when I use an online translator.

 

[HeyBA]

In spoken Spanish, I say Estadounidense, in order to avoid the "Somos todos Americanos" line, which will always come out when people are frustrated about other things, especially when you're talking to a cute chick and they ain't...

 

[Delfina]

LOL - Yes, now imagine being a woman and getting called gorda/gordita/gordi - that one still is tough for me to handle - cultural sensitivities, I have them

I don't mind Gringa, it makes me laugh. And I much prefer that to the other nicknames that are out there. One guy I know, they call him Bagre (He's actually quite handsome so I don't know why).

The worst nickname I know belongs to a friend of a friend: Cancer! He's tall and thin, he's been called like that since he was 12, and doesn't seem to mind.

And back to the topic, it's funny how this debate made me think how I refer to people.. I never say "Americano", it just doesn't come out like that for me, but I really don't mind how they call themselves.

I just say cariñosamente "yanqui" o "de estados unidos". "Estadounidense" is too long and very complicated to pronounce, and "Norteamericano" is a bit grasa, sory gordos.

 

[lovinit]

What's the deal? This is the deal. It's just more arrogant, self-absorbed, delusional Argentine BS. We Americans ourselves and everybody else in the world calls us Americans. But not Argentines. They know better. What a surprise.

And if you weren't aware, that's not their only arrogant reality disconnect. How about official inflation rates ridiculed by everyone in and out of Argentina except its own govt. Or how about 180 years of obsessing and ignoring the fact of British occupation, control, culture, citizenship and naming of the Falkland Islands as recognized by the entire world? Or the notion of the right to force it all to change by arms when repeated agressive assertions doesn't work? The most recent version is more international whining and arm-twisting. Wake up Argentina! Nobody gives a shit.

I'm gettin' warmed up now. How about acting as though they are the only drivers on the road or pedestrians on the sidewalk and being willing to put others in real danger? Or how they act as if they're doing you a favor to serve you in a commercial or bureaucratic context?

What about letting a few disgruntled protesters cut the freeway to the country's international airport for hours without government intervention inconveniencing thousands and costing time and money and missed flights? Or for that matter cutting any major thoroughfare in the Cap. Fed. without consequences?

Or how about protectionist trade policies in favor of Industria Argentina (it's charitable even to call it that) so Argentines have few retail choices except shoddy Argentine goods or overpriced import-taxed goods from the real commercial world that only the polo-players can afford?

And do you imagine Argentines understand that they themselves are the source of their problems? No, never. It's always somebody else. Anybody else. And if it isn't the chankees and the CIA it must be the fault of those puto hard-working, competent, and well-organized capitalist tools in Chile, Brazil and Uruguay.

Or what about how they don't show up for appointments or keep commitments, or lie about why not or that they think an intimate relationship a game to be played? What about yelling all the time, in a grating tone that can damage hearing?

Or how about etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam. No problem. Don't confuse me with the facts....already made up my mind. Soy Argentino.

My conclusion is that the operative cultural imperative here is "yo". Yo, yo, yo, yo. No vos. Yo soy mas importante que vos. In every example cited this is at the core. A shameless assertion of self-importance permeates the culture from inter-personal to inter-national.

I think it must begin with child-rearing practices...don't know how else people could get these ideas. When I asked an Argentine child psychiatrist what was up with all the selfish behavior in this culture she referred me to a book by an Israeli psychologist entitled "Su Majestad el Bebe" exploring the consequences of no limits parenting. http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1411069-su-majestad-el-bebe-un-modelo-de-crianza-a-desterrar

Uh oh. Last but not least I forgot the crime. You know, the not-especially-serious problem that damn near everyone you know has been a multiple victim of and that's responsible for that happy smile you see everyday on the face of the average porteño. And my God, what about the video horror show of the Frenchman gutted for his camera dying on the sidewalk in front of the monument to Argentine hubris at the hands of a local lowlife. That was the last friggin straw for me.

And please don't react to this post by telling me about American or any others' delusions, neuroses or bad habits or similar conditions. Of course we have them. Lots. Everybody does. But denial and blame (Argentine specialties) don't alter an iota of the truth about any of it, personal or national, and are in fact the most effective strategies for continuing to labor under our illusions and suffering the painful consequences.

And please don't ask me why I'm still here either. I'm going...if you couldn't tell...I've had it. Give me the happy Brazilians, the organized Chilenos or the quiet, polite and friendly Ecuadorians any day. Y Chau.

 

[nicoenarg]

Dude, your post reminds me of Dubai which is what my wife and I escaped from thinking Argentina would be a little more civilized (and believe me, if you can, it is a lot more civilized than Dubai).

Been here a month and a half and we have already had a whole lotta problems. Your post suggests there is a whole lot more we are in for.

My wife and I have been saying to each other for the last couple of weeks now, "WHAT THE HELL DID WE GET OURSELVES INTO!"

What's the deal? This is the deal. It's just more arrogant, self-absorbed, delusional Argentine BS. We Americans ourselves and everybody else in the world calls us Americans. But not Argentines. They know better. What a surprise.

And if you weren't aware, that's not their only arrogant reality disconnect. How about official inflation rates ridiculed by everyone in and out of Argentina except its own govt. Or how about 180 years of obsessing and ignoring the fact of British occupation, control, culture, citizenship and naming of the Falkland Islands as recognized by the entire world? Or the notion of the right to force it all to change by arms when repeated agressive assertions doesn't work? The most recent version is more international whining and arm-twisting. Wake up Argentina! Nobody gives a shit.

I'm gettin' warmed up now. How about acting as though they are the only drivers on the road or pedestrians on the sidewalk and being willing to put others in real danger? Or how they act as if they're doing you a favor to serve you in a commercial or bureaucratic context?

What about letting a few disgruntled protesters cut the freeway to the country's international airport for hours without government intervention inconveniencing thousands and costing time and money and missed flights? Or for that matter cutting any major thoroughfare in the Cap. Fed. without consequences?

Or how about protectionist trade policies in favor of Industria Argentina (it's charitable even to call it that) so Argentines have few retail choices except shoddy Argentine goods or overpriced import-taxed goods from the real commercial world that only the polo-players can afford?

And do you imagine Argentines understand that they themselves are the source of their problems? No, never. It's always somebody else. Anybody else. And if it isn't the chankees and the CIA it must be the fault of those puto hard-working, competent, and well-organized capitalist tools in Chile, Brazil and Uruguay.

Or what about how they don't show up for appointments or keep commitments, or lie about why not or that they think an intimate relationship a game to be played? What about yelling all the time, in a grating tone that can damage hearing?

Or how about etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam. No problem. Don't confuse me with the facts....already made up my mind. Soy Argentino.

My conclusion is that the operative cultural imperative here is "yo". Yo, yo, yo, yo. No vos. Yo soy mas importante que vos. In every example cited this is at the core. A shameless assertion of self-importance permeates the culture from inter-personal to inter-national.

I think it must begin with child-rearing practices...don't know how else people could get these ideas. When I asked an Argentine child psychiatrist what was up with all the selfish behavior in this culture she referred me to a book by an Israeli psychologist entitled "Su Majestad el Bebe" exploring the consequences of no limits parenting. http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1411069-su-majestad-el-bebe-un-modelo-de-crianza-a-desterrar

Uh oh. Last but not least I forgot the crime. You know, the not-especially-serious problem that damn near everyone you know has been a multiple victim of and that's responsible for that happy smile you see everyday on the face of the average porteño. And my God, what about the video horror show of the Frenchman gutted for his camera dying on the sidewalk in front of the monument to Argentine hubris at the hands of a local lowlife. That was the last friggin straw for me.

And please don't react to this post by telling me about American or any others' delusions, neuroses or bad habits or similar conditions. Of course we have them. Lots. Everybody does. But denial and blame (Argentine specialties) don't alter an iota of the truth about any of it, personal or national, and are in fact the most effective strategies for continuing to labor under our illusions and suffering the painful consequences.

And please don't ask me why I'm still here either. I'm going...if you couldn't tell...I've had it. Give me the happy Brazilians, the organized Chilenos or the quiet, polite and friendly Ecuadorians any day. Y Chau.

 

[Markgeezer]

gringo it is then.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdPDsLRSllQ

 

[YanquiGallego]

lovinit: Amen. I am loving your post. You speak the truth. I love the city of Buenos Aires, and love the country of Argentina, and the cultural diversity and options you can enjoy for a relatively lower price than Europe or the US, but it has gotten to a point where every time I hear that Porteño tone outside of the Cap Fed, I cringe and automatically expect to be looked down upon as an inferior being.

I have a Delta flight attendant friend who loves the city, but after having been told hostily that she was not American by an Argentina and that it was inconsiderate on her part to feel that she was(!) , she will now not come on flights where she is working, she bids AGAINST EZE flights because the thought of being in an enclosed metal tube for 10 hours having to serve potentially 250 Porteños scares the beejesus out of her.

 

[nicoenarg]

lovinit: Amen. I am loving your post. You speak the truth. I love the city of Buenos Aires, and love the country of Argentina, and the cultural diversity and options you can enjoy for a relatively lower price than Europe or the US, but it has gotten to a point where every time I hear that Porteño tone outside of the Cap Fed, I cringe and automatically expect to be looked down upon as an inferior being.

I have a Delta flight attendant friend who loves the city, but after having been told hostily that she was not American by an Argentina and that it was inconsiderate on her part to feel that she was(!) , she will now not come on flights where she is working, she bids AGAINST EZE flights because the thought of being in an enclosed metal tube for 10 hours having to serve potentially 250 Porteños scares the beejesus out of her.

I was a flight attendant for Emirates. If she thinks portenos are scary, she should try doing Indian flights!

 

[YanquiGallego]

Really? I would have guessed a totally different ball park from Porteños. I know that India shares the same prehistoric ¨caste¨ thought process as Argentina, (It drives me insane but at the same time makes me laugh when I hear ¨I dated someone who was middle class.¨ here in Argentina etc) but most of the Indians I have met have been quite polite and softspoken in social settings, and I certainly havent met too many with such an enormous sense of entitlement as Porteños.

 

[nicoenarg]

Really? I would have guessed a totally different ball park from Porteños. I know that India shares the same prehistoric ¨caste¨ thought process as Argentina, (It drives me insane but at the same time makes me laugh when I hear ¨I dated someone who was middle class.¨ here in Argentina etc) but most of the Indians I have met have been quite polite and softspoken in social settings, and I certainly havent met too many with such an enormous sense of entitlement as Porteños.

I have many Indian friends as well (if you live in Dubai, you can't not have Indian friends), and they are all nice people. But the Indians on airplanes or restaurants are a whole other story.

They have the mentality that if someone is "serving" you, then they must be lower class/dirty (untouchables?). It does not have anything to do with caste, it just is the way they are with people in service industry.