what's the deal with $USD in argentina?

[akep]

ok so I'm moving down to BA at the beginning of january, in full planning/research mode right now, and I keep reading about the importance of US dollars...to be totally honest, I don't get this stuff. exchange rates, strength of currency, etc, all just confuses me! it seems like I want to bring as much cold hard cash in US dollars as possible, but I'm not really sure how it works in terms of who actually accepts USD in argentina? like one thing I just read said most landlords only accept rent in cash, and it has to be USD? I don't want to be unprepared, but I also don't want to be travelling with obscene amounts of cash on me...especially since I won't exactly have a bank to put it all in once I get there. and then along those lines, what exactly do people do for apartments/banking as non-argentine citizens? I keep seeing mentions of needing guarantors to sign a lease, how hard it is to find apartments since most people just live at home, can't open bank accounts...etc.

any and all help on any of this would be much appreciated, thx!

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Maximum you can carry is 10.000 USD per person.
Don t sign any contract in dollars. They are forbidden by the law.
The point is that the official rate is 4.25 but you can sell them between 4.5 and 5 at the black market.
Regards

 

[citygirl]

Maximum you can carry is 10.000 USD per person.
Don t sign any contract in dollars. They are forbidden by the law.
The point is that the official rate is 4.25 but you can sell them between 4.5 and 5 at the black market.
Regards

Maximum you can legally carry WITHOUT DECLARING is 10.000. You can certainly carry more than that if you declare although wouldn't recommend.

Short-term contracts for furnished apts in dollars aren't illegal.

You can sell on black market for much more but as someone new, I would be very careful about doing that.

To the original questions - most owners wanted USD and still do for short-term, furnished apt rentals. That has become increasingly difficult to get due to the laws restricting the ability to exchange pesos for dollars. If you are here for only a short-time, probably won't affect you and just pay the rent up front. If you're planning on staying longer, it will be an issue.

You need a guarnator ( a local property owner) if you want to rent an unfurnished apt at a much lower price point. This is not a practical avenue for most tourists as a) the lease is 2 years and few will stay that long and b) it's quite expensive to furnish an apt so it greatly offsets the cost-savings.

If you are here for a shorter-time period, it's very easy to rent a short-term furnished apt. All you need is cash. Recommend you come down and stay in either hotel or apt rented through an agency for the first two weeks or month while you look around and try to determine where you want to live, your budget, etc.

In re banking - no residency, no checking account. I think you can open a savings account but why bother if you're here for a short-time. If you're here for longer, get your residency and then open the accounts.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Maximum you can legally carry WITHOUT DECLARING is 10.000. You can certainly carry more than that if you declare although wouldn't recommend.

Short-term contracts for furnished apts in dollars aren't illegal.

Yes, they are illegal. And nowadays is ridicoulous to sign a contract in dollars. So, this is a good time to negociate properly the contract.

Ley 23.091.
Art. 1º Instrumentación.
Los contratos de locaciones urbanas, así como también sus modificaciones y prórrogas, deberán formalizarse por escrito. Cuando el contrato no celebrado por escrito haya tenido principio de ejecución, se considerará como plazo el mínimo fijado en esta ley y el precio y su actualización los determinará el juez de acuerdo al valor y práctica de plaza.
En todos los supuestos, los alquileres se establecerán en moneda de curso legal al momento de concretarse. Será nula, sin perjuicio de la validez del contrato, la cláusula por la cual se convenga el pago en moneda que no tenga curso legal. En este caso, el precio quedará sujeto a la determinación judicial.

 

[citygirl]

We've been round this before. I know real estate lawyers who specialize in short-term contracts for furnished apts who say exactly the opposite. While I'm sure you know a great deal about real estate law in addition to immigration law, there definitely seems to be some dissent.

ETA - Just looking up the handy post Bradleyhale made a while back.

Argentine law clearly states that rentals can be in dollars. The "Ley de Alquileres" used to prohibit that, but that specific clause was dropped in 1993 by the Minister of Economy and Public Services:

Resolution 144/93: "Artículo 1º — Interprétase que la Ley 23.928 ha derogado el segundo párrafo del artículo 1º de la Ley 23.091, pudiendo las partes contratantes determinar la moneda de pago de los alquileres o arrendamientos que acuerden."

Law 23.091 is the Ley de Alquilere s.

 

[TheBlackHand]

You are wrong. It most definitely is legal as long as both parties agree to it.

Yes, they are illegal. And nowadays is ridicoulous to sign a contract in dollars. So, this is a good time to negociate properly the contract.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

We've been round this before.

I know, and still I can not understand how You can be so arrogant to pretend discuss as equals with a professional.

I know real estate lawyers who specialize in short-term contracts for furnished apts who say exactly the opposite. While I'm sure you know a great deal about real estate law in addition to immigration law, there definitely seems to be some dissent.

Regarding the lawyers you mentioned, the Lawyers professional ethics law forbidds me to give my opinion about them, but take your own conclusions.

ETA - Just looking up the handy post Bradleyhale made a while back.

Argentine law clearly states that rentals can be in dollars. The "Ley de Alquileres" used to prohibit that, but that specific clause was dropped in 1993 by the Minister of Economy and Public Services:

Resolution 144/93: "Artículo 1º — Interprétase que la Ley 23.928 ha derogado el segundo párrafo del artículo 1º de la Ley 23.091, pudiendo las partes contratantes determinar la moneda de pago de los alquileres o arrendamientos que acuerden."

Law 23.091 is the Ley de Alquilere s.

Well, the law you are quoting is the "ley de convertivilidad" that is abolished.

Instead of using google or quoting other thread of doubtful credibility, as an attorney I pay for a service for lawyers that has all the laws updated for a hundred dollars per month:

Art. 1.– (Derogado por ley 25561, art. 3 Ver Texto ) (ABOLISHED)

ABOLISHED TEXT:
Art. 1.- (Texto según ley 25445, art. 1 Ver Texto ) El peso será convertible para la venta, a una relación de un peso ($1) por el promedio simple de un dólar de los Estados Unidos de América (U$S1) y un euro de la Unión Europea (E1), en las condiciones establecidas por la presente ley. A estos efectos se tomará la cotización de tipo vendedor de euros en dólares estadounidenses en el mercado de Londres.
Art. 1.- (Texto originario) Declárase la convertibilidad del austral con el dólar de los Estados Unidos de América a partir del 1 de abril de 1991, a una relación de diez mil australes (=A= 10000) por cada dólar, para la venta, en las condiciones establecidas por la presente ley.


Crystal clear, isn t it? The contracts must be in pesos. You can sign a contract where you sell your self in slavery, however, this is not enforzable. According to law, it is like it was never written.

 

[cruizes]

Don t sign any contract in dollars. They are forbidden by the law.

Regards

A law that can not be enforced because the greedy landlords will still continue to write contracts insisting on dollars.

 

[Bajo_cero2]

Now you know this is illegal you can negociate better. There are greedy landlords who are used to abuse of foreigners and there are normal ones.

I can tell you that even a greedy landlord prefers a contract in pesos than nothing.

Since the new regulations about the dollar were enacted, the contracts in dollars had their death warrant.

Renting an appartment is not like hiring a mobile where you can just accept it or leave it, you can negociate.

And if a lawyer advice you that they are legal, go to the barr asociation and report it. He or she will loose his lawyer id and he or she can be prosecuted for prevaricato.

Regards

 

[citygirl]

I know, and still I can not understand how You can be so arrogant to pretend discuss as equals with a professional.

You calling someone arrogant? The (I'm sure unintended) humor Since lawyers, real estate agents and brokers and firms continue to write and sign contracts in dollars, perhaps you might want to consider there are other legal points of view other than your own - other opinions held by.. ah, yes, your equals

Regarding the lawyers you mentioned, the Lawyers professional ethics law forbidds me to give my opinion about them, but take your own conclusions.

Well - since they're specialists in real estate law and AFAIK, you are not, given your postings as an imimigration expert, I am sure they're not too worried about your conclusions.

Well, the law you are quoting is the "ley de convertivilidad" that is abolished.

Instead of using google or quoting other thread of doubtful credibility, as an attorney I pay for a service for lawyers that has all the laws updated for a hundred dollars per month:

Art. 1.– (Derogado por ley 25561, art. 3 Ver Texto ) (ABOLISHED)

ABOLISHED TEXT:
Art. 1.- (Texto según ley 25445, art. 1 Ver Texto ) El peso será convertible para la venta, a una relación de un peso ($1) por el promedio simple de un dólar de los Estados Unidos de América (U$S1) y un euro de la Unión Europea (E1), en las condiciones establecidas por la presente ley. A estos efectos se tomará la cotización de tipo vendedor de euros en dólares estadounidenses en el mercado de Londres.
Art. 1.- (Texto originario) Declárase la convertibilidad del austral con el dólar de los Estados Unidos de América a partir del 1 de abril de 1991, a una relación de diez mil australes (=A= 10000) por cada dólar, para la venta, en las condiciones establecidas por la presente ley.


Crystal clear, isn t it? The contracts must be in pesos. You can sign a contract where you sell your self in slavery, however, this is not enforzable. According to law, it is like it was never written.

Well, crystal clear in your eyes obviously.

I could cite (ah... love the google) from a legal website in Argentina lawyers who are upholding the right to write a conract in dollars:

Lo del contrato en dólares, no hay problema, es una obligación de dar sumas de dinero, la ley 23928 no fue derogada en esa parte. (arts. 617 y 619 del CC)

1.- Artículo 617 del Código Civil según ley 23.928: Si por el acto por el que se ha constituido la obligación, se hubiere estipulado dar moneda que no sea de curso legal en la República, la obligación debe considerarse como de dar sumas de dinero.

2.- Artículo 619 del Código Civil según ley 23.928: Si la obligación del deudor fuese de entregar una suma de determinada especie o calidad de moneda, cumple la obligación dando la especie designada, el día de su vencimiento.

2º.- Art. 7º de la ley 23.928: El deudor de una obligación de dar una suma determinada de pesos cumple su obligación dando el día de su vencimiento la cantidad nominalmente expresada. En ningún caso se admitirá actualización monetaria, indexación por precios, variación de costos o repotenciación de deudas, cualquiera fuere su causa, haya o no mora del deudor, con las salvedades previstas en la presente ley. Quedan derogadas las disposiciones legales y reglamentarias y serán inaplicables las disposiciones contractuales o convencionales que contravinieren lo aquí dispuesto.

Like I said - you are 100% certain of your viewpoint. Other lawyers and brokers I know who specialize in short-term furnished apts have reviewed the laws and see it differently. And the fact remains, it is in fact default that all short-term apts have their rents set in USD - a fact you probably aren't aware of since I doubt you have rented a short-term, furnished apt. Now that may certainly change with the new restrictions but until now, it has been SOP to have rents set in USD.

Anyway, off-topic and to the OPs point, come down with USD and you'll be very popular.