Where is home to an expat?

[lis2007_hotmail_com]

Home one country? Maybe this is related with the necessity of identification (or attachment) with "something". Why is it our conditioning? Is it not better being multicultural and multidimensional? "Travelling" is the challenge, the golden opportunity to observe this conditioning and to discover "Home".

 

[nataliasarro]

Thanks lis!

 

[HotYogaTeacher]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting the discussion. Also, I am finding the women's forum more open minded and less aggressive to differing opinions than the other pages, which can be very rude and ugly when there are differences.

I have lived here for almost 2 years and will never be at home here. There are many reasons for that, one of which is that I have never lived in a big, loud, dirty city like this before. I come from San Diego where the city is beautiful, organized, easy to navigate, clean, clean, clean, friendly, open and full of happy, beautiful people.

I didn't realize any of that really, until I came here. I travel a lot, but traveling doesn't give you the same experience as living somewhere. It's always interesting and exciting and you don't have to deal with difficulties, are always in good parts of town and so on. Living somewhere really brings you face to face with the ways it is different. I find that I don't really connect with Argentines, especially women. One of my casual Argentine acquaintances told me this is because I am too attractive in certain sort of way that they find intimidating, but I find that way too simplistic to buy into. Besides it just doesn't fit with my image of myself. I feel like a pretty normal person. All of my friends here are expats and I will never be as close to them as I am to people at home because we are all transient naturally, independent and busy. There isn't time enough to really connect.

This city, this whole country, doesn't jibe with me. There may be other places in the world I would connect with more, but it will never be Argentina. When we sell our apartment I will never return here. When I go home to the states I feel very much at home and very right. It is filled with people who get me and who I understand.
The cultural differences here are are very hard for me. There are things about the culture I will never understand. An Example:
I have super short hair. Most of the hair dressers I've tried don't do such a great job with it, as they are used to long hair, or men's short haircuts. I've run into a handful of people (5-10) with really great short hair styles. I've excused myself in my best castellano and complimented on their haircut, and asked them where they get it cut. I swear to goodness their answers EVERY TIME were 1st, I don't know, 2nd around this or that neighborhood, 3rd and final the general location of but not name of salon or hairdresser and a hasty retreat. An Argie acquaintance told me this is normal here. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME, AND IT NEVER WILL. Why wouldn't you just answer the damn question? It's a compliment for goodness' sake. It's just helping a sister out. In the states the person would have a 5 minute conversation about how amazing the hair dresser was, where, exactly the location was, if they didn't have a card right in their wallet to share with me or the phone number on their iPhone. There are things about this culture that will always seem closed and rigid and rude and dark to me. Why be so distrustful? It makes no sense. I will be glad when my time here is over. We will be going home in the Spring (North American Spring) of next year.

Peace....

 

[fifilafiloche]

I realized after reading some posts here, how some expatriates could get really homesick. The hairdresser is one example, the way of driving another one, dating a local a final one. They seem to express some kind of cultural pride from their country of birth, how things works so much better over there...

I m still amazed and dont understand them. I dont understand why they would travel if they were not ready for changes, curious and eager for exotism. I can t imagine them travelling to even more exotic countries with a totally different philosophy, since after all, Argentina still has a lot in common with Europe and north America, especially Buenos Aires.

Or would it be just because writing in a place where you will find people from your own country would be a way to release frustrations and luster national egos, just because yours was hurt by the difficulty to adapt to a foreign reality, by virtually throwing eggs at locals?

Where is the excitement of travelling, of discovering other ways of thinking, of behaving, escaping routine, other accents, other faces. Where is the magery of exotism?

I m also surprised how conversations can be concentrated on appearances rather than indepth differences. Length of hair is an example. Very few ever talk about the imagination an argentine needs to survive with a salary of 1500 pesos which is usually less than what they pay for renting their apartment (and is so cheap!). The level of problems seem totally different.

Or is it because Buenos Aires looks so much like a western town that they would simply forget they are in a different continent?

 

[rihornos]

I agree with Hot Yoga Teacher that people is not polite they just don`t care, don`t accept a compliment, is lack of education. Iam a local and I can understand that you don`t like this behaviour but have in mind that most people even locals don`t like either
all the best
Reina

 

[steveinbsas]

I realized after reading some posts here, how some expatriates could get really homesick. The hairdresser is one example, the way of driving another one, dating a local a final one. They seem to express some kind of cultural pride from their country of birth, how things works so much better over there...

I m still amazed and dont understand them. I dont understand why they would travel if they were not ready for changes, curious and eager for exotism. I can t imagine them travelling to even more exotic countries with a totally different philosophy, since after all, Argentina still has a lot in common with Europe and north America, especially Buenos Aires.

Or would it be just because writing in a place where you will find people from your own country would be a way to release frustrations and luster national egos, just because yours was hurt by the difficulty to adapt to a foreign reality, by virtually throwing eggs at locals?

Where is the excitement of travelling, of discovering other ways of thinking, of behaving, escaping routine, other accents, other faces. Where is the magery of exotism?

I m also surprised how conversations can be concentrated on appearances rather than indepth differences. Length of hair is an example. Very few ever talk about the imagination an argentine needs to survive with a salary of 1500 pesos which is usually less than what they pay for renting their apartment (and is so cheap!). The level of problems seem totally different.

Or is it because Buenos Aires looks so much like a western town that they would simply forget they are in a different continent?

You don't understand expats?

Some of us don't understand you.

What is "magery of exotism"????

 

[fifilafiloche]

I certainly dont understand THOSE expats who chose to come down here but expect everything to be like back home. I m undoubtedly not the only one to be surprised by their inability to find pleasure and happiness in a slightly different environment. What was their motivation then to leave their family, job, friends to settle down here?

The explanation of the magery of exotism lies in the text, you don t expect, on an international forum, everybody to use the exact same expressions you use back home as well, do you? When people make the effort and have the courtesy to communicate in your own language (while staying in a country that doesnt use that language), you could at least make that minimal step to try to figure out what they are meaning or is it inherent to your unwillingness to adapt to others?

A magician brings you entertainment, intrigues you by the way he acts and talks, so do people with different customs. They both bring you out of your home routine and help you question your habits. They shock your certainties and help you grow.

 

[Lucas]

I certainly dont understand THOSE expats who chose to come down here but expect everything to be like back home. I m undoubtedly not the only one to be surprised by their inability to find pleasure and happiness in a slightly different environment. What was their motivation then to leave their family, job, friends to settle down here?

The explanation of the magery of exotism lies in the text, you don t expect, on an international forum, everybody to use the exact same expressions you use back home as well, do you? When people make the effort and have the courtesy to communicate in your own language (while staying in a country that doesnt use that language), you could at least make that minimal step to try to figure out what they are meaning or is it inherent to your unwillingness to adapt to others?

A magician brings you entertainment, intrigues you by the way he acts and talks, so do people with different customs. They both bring you out of your home routine and help you question your habits. They shock your certainties and help you grow.

Well said, fifilafi, why you're going to leave your beloved country to go and live in another country which "must have" a cloned environment as your original?, seems some people want to live in a cocoon as artificial as "The Truman Show"

 

[nataliasarro]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting the discussion. Also, I am finding the women's forum more open minded and less aggressive to differing opinions than the other pages, which can be very rude and ugly when there are differences.

I have lived here for almost 2 years and will never be at home here. There are many reasons for that, one of which is that I have never lived in a big, loud, dirty city like this before. I come from San Diego where the city is beautiful, organized, easy to navigate, clean, clean, clean, friendly, open and full of happy, beautiful people.

I didn't realize any of that really, until I came here. I travel a lot, but traveling doesn't give you the same experience as living somewhere. It's always interesting and exciting and you don't have to deal with difficulties, are always in good parts of town and so on. Living somewhere really brings you face to face with the ways it is different. I find that I don't really connect with Argentines, especially women. One of my casual Argentine acquaintances told me this is because I am too attractive in certain sort of way that they find intimidating, but I find that way too simplistic to buy into. Besides it just doesn't fit with my image of myself. I feel like a pretty normal person. All of my friends here are expats and I will never be as close to them as I am to people at home because we are all transient naturally, independent and busy. There isn't time enough to really connect.

This city, this whole country, doesn't jibe with me. There may be other places in the world I would connect with more, but it will never be Argentina. When we sell our apartment I will never return here. When I go home to the states I feel very much at home and very right. It is filled with people who get me and who I understand.
The cultural differences here are are very hard for me. There are things about the culture I will never understand. An Example:
I have super short hair. Most of the hair dressers I've tried don't do such a great job with it, as they are used to long hair, or men's short haircuts. I've run into a handful of people (5-10) with really great short hair styles. I've excused myself in my best castellano and complimented on their haircut, and asked them where they get it cut. I swear to goodness their answers EVERY TIME were 1st, I don't know, 2nd around this or that neighborhood, 3rd and final the general location of but not name of salon or hairdresser and a hasty retreat. An Argie acquaintance told me this is normal here. IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME, AND IT NEVER WILL. Why wouldn't you just answer the damn question? It's a compliment for goodness' sake. It's just helping a sister out. In the states the person would have a 5 minute conversation about how amazing the hair dresser was, where, exactly the location was, if they didn't have a card right in their wallet to share with me or the phone number on their iPhone. There are things about this culture that will always seem closed and rigid and rude and dark to me. Why be so distrustful? It makes no sense. I will be glad when my time here is over. We will be going home in the Spring (North American Spring) of next year.

Peace....

-------------------------

Dear HotYoga teacher and all

thanks a lot for keeping this discussion alive! It´s really interesting.
Hotyoga Teacher, I can certainly perceive your frustration towards those things from the Argentinian culture that appear to be impossible to understand, from your perspective.
When things dont make sense to us, it may cause anger or confussion.

Let me give you a hand on this!
We can only observe reality from our "cultural glasses", based on what our parents and teachers taught us. From our childhood, each culture defines to us what is "normal" and "abnormal".

Argies, and each other culture, has their own concept of normality as well. It doesnt make them more rude, or less trustful. It is just different. They probably have different ways of expressing friendliness.
For example, Argies have an indirect communication style. The will hardly go straight to the point. For them, it is rude to say "yes" or "no" right away (as a US American or a German individual would do). Maybe those Argie women were just trying to start a conversation talking about lots of subjects, trying to establish rapport with you.
On the other hand, this came across to you in a very negative manner, as "They are just changing subject and are trying to avoid giving me the hairdresser´s phone nr ".

Did you ever think of looking at it from a different way?

As a foreigner to this particular culture, we need to be curious... observe,ask, suspend judgement... and have interest in developing strategies to interpret those messages.

It is great that you asked Argie friends if there was something you don´t understand. It´s a really helathy option!
That may help you accept differences, whether you find they work for you or not. I hope you can enjoy the rest of you stay in BA!


Cheers

Natalia

 

[fifilafiloche]

-------------------------

As a foreigner to this particular culture, we need to be curious... observe,ask, suspend judgement... and have interest in developing strategies to interpret those messages.
It is great that you asked Argie friends if there was something you don´t understand. It´s a really helathy option!

Thanks for your argentine point of view.

I digress with you when you claim it is IMPOSSIBLE to understand other cultures. Difficult, may be, depending on your personnality, but impossible certainly not. Our brain is an incredibly flexible machine, keeps making links and desabling others. If you try to understand you will certainly, with time, observation, curiosity. The abnormal becomes normal and vice versa.

A few examples :

When i came back to France after my first stay in Argentina, i stopped in at the terrace in a restaurant at the train station in Lyon. I saw a lady looking for a light in front of me and, as an argentine would do naturally, offered her my lighter. The girl got suspicious, as if i was trying to seduce her. After 8 month in Argentina, i totally forgot that in France, you can t do that for the opposite sex without being suspected of flirting, while in Argentina you would be rude for not doing it.

When i first arrived in the US, i felt frustrated people wouldnt thank me when i was holding the door for them. I needed time to understand that this was just not expected there. They couldnt care less since they could do it themselves.

Communication is all. No question is stupid if sincerely asked. Argentines will at first be surprised, since what is obvious for them isnt for you. If you explain how it works back at home, they will then start to introspect and quite surely explain you why they act this way.

Be aware tho that everbody has its own perception. For example, Natallia thinks that US americans are fairly direct while Argentines are elusive. I had a similar discussion with an argento american couple lately. The argentine guy had just the opposite opinion. He thought US americans were too often hypocritical , too much caring about how politically correct they would sound, while in his opinion, Argentines were much more direct, profund.

So the best is to ask more than one person to make yourself an opinion, just like you need to listen to different medias.