Who is Stayin Alive?

[Pierre Smith]

Mr. Donald - it looks like you and I posted about the exact same time, and said very similar things. I'd say that great minds think alike, or call it serendipitous, but I'm not sure that we'd agree on much else, considering you post under the sobriquet of Mr. Donald Trump or whatever it is.

For Fiscal, not that you need to read it, but this is pretty neat: the UK version of Westlaw allows this summary to be viewed without requiring a subscription. https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreut...ontextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1

Short version:

0) Argentina sees itself as having jurisdiction, no question.
1) custody is "always assigned to the mother in cases where the child is under 5 years of age."
2) unmarried couples' division of property is not as in a "common law marriage" as in some places, but by contract (like we have in California), except as to the family home, and the "compensation rights for non-working party in charge of child education." This is apart from child support.
3) the above notwithstanding, you'll probably have to maintain her for some period of time, even if there's no alimony available to her. Proving infidelity on her party is pointless (even if you felt like you wanted to and could, which it doesn't sound like), as Argentina dispensed with fault-based marriage dissolutions a few years ago, and you're not even married.
4) child support in Argentina is absolutely brutal. You can pay until the kid is 25, you can be sued by the mother, the kid (when he reaches 18), and even whatever guy (or gal) the mother shacks up with next, provided they marry. They'll get everything they can from you, and it's based on a percentage of your income. She gets the benefit of the doubt burden of proof-wise (ie. it's on you to demonstrate that the kid doesn't have need, or that you can't/shouldn't continue to provide 35 or 40 or whatever percent of your salary, and even if she makes more or marries some new guy, good luck getting the judge to adjust it). The guide doesn't say this, but you can expect to be at a disadvantage as a relatively higher earning foreigner.
5) watch out for domestic violence accusations, as that could really harm you.
6) these are general rules and local rules may vary based on your location/court.

 

[Fiscal]

Thank you for the summary! I spoke to two lawyers already. They told me no way would child support be based as a percentage of my income. I'm not even a resident of Argentina and 25% of my income would be an outrageous number in Argentina.

 

[Fiscal]

Thanks for the tips. I don't really have any personal feelings other than sadness and also, I don't want to sit here in Peru indefinitely until she can get a flight to Argentina.

 

[Pierre Smith]

Based on income to protect against inflation, according to that guide. But I don't know anything more than that, and obviously have zero knowledge compared with an Argentine divorce attorney.

 

[Fiscal]

Ah I see. The lawyers had suggested to me a fixed amount per month of $1500 USD.

 

[Pierre Smith]

Yeah, assuming you can pay that, going to war for 1500 clams a month to support your kid for sure isn't worth it.

If you're earning a US professional's wage and living in South America, that's a hit, but worth it to keep visitation rights, etc. Ie to keep the kid in the picture. If I were you, I'd make sure that you or even your attorney make it clear - informally - that any move at all, of any kind, to game things, while you're in the citizenship process, yeah, that's a declaration of war.

 

[Fiscal]

$1500 a month in Argentina goes a long way. A nice apartment in Rosario is $300 a month.

 

[on the brink]

$1500 a month in Argentina goes a long way. A nice apartment in Rosario is $300 a month.

That sounds way too high. In Argentina, bank employees are the best paid - they make about $800 per month. That's for a family of four.

It is best to start low, and see what happens. If you start too high she'll see you as a patsy, and will probably demand more. Starting low, there's room for increases if you feel it is warranted.

I suggest doing a search for "Salarios - Argentina - 2020" Here's a link listing salaries for managers, in different companies. The conversion right now is 125 pesos per dollar.

Sueldo: Gerente General en Argentina en 2023

El sueldo promedio de Gerente General es $ 300.000 por año en Argentina. Haz clic aquí para ver el pago total, sueldos compartidos recientemente y más.

www.glassdoor.com.ar

 

[Pierre Smith]

Yeah, $1,500 a month to the mother for the next 20 years is going to keep her set, there's no question about that. it's probably double or more the maximum amount that a middle class Argentine would pay in a similar situation, considering they didn't marry. And of course he should negotiate hard.

But as annoying as it is to OP to see the woman spend the rest of her life on easy street for shacking up with him for a couple years and bearing a child, if he makes a US professional's salary (say, take home is 6k/month), who gives a shit? Assuming that's the end of it, OP is getting off relatively lightly - where I live, daycare for 1 kid is $3,000+/month, and a decent nanny can run double that. As long as the settlement is structured property, so that the wife is accountable for how the money is spent to benefit the kid, it's a fair amount to pay for someone to raise your kid.

 

[EL_TIGRE_de_Tigre]

Women = Emotions / Men = Money (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus!)

Not so amazing how the conversation has turned to one of financial compensation. I am not saying the discussion is wrong or inappropriate, I am just marveling at it all. (With no satisfaction I may add, because FISCAL's situation is a sad one that repeats itself thousands of times each day around the world.)

I see this as very sad for us as a species. We have a very long way to go. Hopefully one day, we can evolve, regardless of gender, to not focus on "pockets" of a problem via our gender specific pre disposition of viewing it all.

Back to the topic ... for which I intended to comment:

FISCAL - Again, you are receiving a lot of advice, and I am guilty as well, because mine is about to follow:

Based upon all you have shared with us, it would be my guess that the mother of your son would be unhappy with any child support agreement you arrived at. (Mind you, this is with only one side of the story, as I am sure her side, which we do not know, would influence us ... perhaps in another direction.) But, based upon what we know, you have painted her as unreasonable in nature, so I am going to go with it.

One can view this in two different ways. The first, picking a number you shared ... $1,500 per month ... In Argentina, that is a lot of money. With that sum, there is zero incentive to work. That would be quite an accomplishment for the mother of your child. (Herein after referred to as TMOYC!)

With $1.5K per month, this woman can relax, live her life without the need to work and raise a child. On the surface, that would be best. As long as you can do it without resentment, because I have to believe when a person finds themselves in a situation of a sound, guaranteed income, there will be temptations to allocate some of the money for unintended purposes ... ie personal enjoyment. BUT - That is the way it goes. And I am guessing you would never know about this, because you would be geographically far removed from her. And in the end, she will view you as a dummy for your generosity.

The second, is to "tighten up" the amount to a lesser number. And to do that, may or may not be correct. But in doing so, it obviously places some pressure / responsibility on the shoulders of TMOYC to partially provide for herself and your son. In a situation like this .. you still lose, because she will view you as a cheapskate. And when she views you like this, she will definitely poison your child's mind against you.

So, as I stated in an earlier post of mine ... no matter what you do, which way you go ... YOU CANNOT WIN. Or better put, (Because I am not sure you are trying to win anything here ...) you cannot come out of this situation in any positive light or condition. And that is because of the mindset / point of view with who you appear to be working with.

Given all that I have said ...

I urge you to just accept it all, set it aside and focus on the well being of your child. Do the right thing for the child's best interest. Keep the arguing and disagreement with TMOYC in you mind ... don't participate in it. Take the high road with no friction. Let her win the battles and the war with respect to the relationship, for it is lost already. Just try to save your relationship with your son. If you truly love your child, and I think you do, you need to interact with his mom along the way. It will be challenging most of the time, but it will make you a better person. And it will give you the best chance to be part of your son's life.

Right now, you are in this for you son's sake. Stay focused on him and his needs. And remember that in helping him, the mother will benefit, but don't take it badly ... show courage. Be calm.

I can't share anymore now or in future ...that basically sums it up and without something new, my advice wouldn't change.

Best wishes to you and your son.