Why are clothes so expensive here?

[on the brink]

....bath towels I highly recommend and our friends want to steal haha.

Where can I get those bath towels? I desperately need some good ones.....!

 

[antipodean]

The other side of the coin is that current textile fast fashion is unsustainable. A Tee is sold for 10 bucks because they pay some poor woman or child in Bangladesh a few cents a day, they pollute their water and air without paying any "externalities tax" for the environmental cost. It's equivalent of the "cheap" fast food in the US where most of the McDs workers are on food stamps (effectively having the taxpayer subsidizing McDonalds). You see someone is always footing the bill when you offer something below it's true value, be it labor or goods.

That being said, Argentine's obsession with protecting the textile industry is stupid. It's a low value added industry.

Nevertheless, I'd much rather pay more for locally produced textile than "cheap" rag from Bangladesh. The bigger issue is that the quality is also lacking here.

The irony is most Argentine “big” brand products and clothes on sale here are made in Bangladesh or similar and only a small part of their lines are made, or “finished” in Argentina. Further those made in Argentina, like most things, usually come from one of only a few factories with heavy Union “protections” in place - so those “made in Argentina” el burgués or Zara t-shirts are made in the same place that also makes t-shirts sold in Once but sold for prices of 10-20 times as much.

Further the actual materials they use for cheap and expensive “made in Argentina” products alike are almost all imported and the cheapest of the cheap thanks to currency issues we all know of (meaning human exploitation in the supply chain is almost 100% guaranteed)

I remember paying over $150 for a sweater from an Argentine chain store at a mall thinking, “oh well at least it’s unique as it must be made in Argentina” … got home and saw the label “made in China”. Another occasion a pair of locally made shoes that were confirmed pre-purchase as being locally made for about a similar price (blue) and after a week of wear were almost write-offs thanks to bad quality materials, which upon complaining was told to have imported rubber soles that were the “problem”.

The reason that clothes, like many other things, are expensive here is because there is so little competition. On all of the retail, local manufacturing, logistic and importation fronts. The owners of these companies can and do charge what they want (and of course their local workers in the few factories they buy from here ain’t exactly having wonderful lives with wages that make it until the end of month without receiving state subsidies themselves…)

With that said as with anywhere else in the world, unless you’re buying super high-end or hand-made artisanal clothing with traceable supply chains, like some wool clothing from the north, clothing in Argentina is hardly more ethical than fast or average paced fashion anywhere else.

 

[dsp27]

The irony is most Argentine “big” brand products and clothes on sale here are made in Bangladesh or similar and only a small part of their lines are made, or “finished” in Argentina. Further those made in Argentina, like most things, usually come from one of only a few factories with heavy Union “protections” in place - so those “made in Argentina” el burgués or Zara t-shirts are made in the same place that also makes t-shirts sold in Once but sold for prices of 10-20 times as much.

Further the actual materials they use for cheap and expensive “made in Argentina” products alike are almost all imported and the cheapest of the cheap thanks to currency issues we all know of (meaning human exploitation in the supply chain is almost 100% guaranteed)

I remember paying over $150 for a sweater from an Argentine chain store at a mall thinking, “oh well at least it’s unique as it must be made in Argentina” … got home and saw the label “made in China”. Another occasion a pair of locally made shoes that were confirmed pre-purchase as being locally made for about a similar price (blue) and after a week of wear were almost write-offs thanks to bad quality materials, which upon complaining was told to have imported rubber soles that were the “problem”.

The reason that clothes, like many other things, are expensive here is because there is so little competition. On all of the retail, local manufacturing, logistic and importation fronts. The owners of these companies can and do charge what they want (and of course their local workers in the few factories they buy from here ain’t exactly having wonderful lives with wages that make it until the end of month without receiving state subsidies themselves…)

With that said as with anywhere else in the world, unless you’re buying super high-end or hand-made artisanal clothing with traceable supply chains, like some wool clothing from the north, clothing in Argentina is hardly more ethical than fast or average paced fashion anywhere else.

great points.

 

[Ries]

The irony is most Argentine “big” brand products and clothes on sale here are made in Bangladesh or similar and only a small part of their lines are made, or “finished” in Argentina. Further those made in Argentina, like most things, usually come from one of only a few factories with heavy Union “protections” in place - so those “made in Argentina” el burgués or Zara t-shirts are made in the same place that also makes t-shirts sold in Once but sold for prices of 10-20 times as much.

Further the actual materials they use for cheap and expensive “made in Argentina” products alike are almost all imported and the cheapest of the cheap thanks to currency issues we all know of (meaning human exploitation in the supply chain is almost 100% guaranteed)

I remember paying over $150 for a sweater from an Argentine chain store at a mall thinking, “oh well at least it’s unique as it must be made in Argentina” … got home and saw the label “made in China”. Another occasion a pair of locally made shoes that were confirmed pre-purchase as being locally made for about a similar price (blue) and after a week of wear were almost write-offs thanks to bad quality materials, which upon complaining was told to have imported rubber soles that were the “problem”.

The reason that clothes, like many other things, are expensive here is because there is so little competition. On all of the retail, local manufacturing, logistic and importation fronts. The owners of these companies can and do charge what they want (and of course their local workers in the few factories they buy from here ain’t exactly having wonderful lives with wages that make it until the end of month without receiving state subsidies themselves…)

With that said as with anywhere else in the world, unless you’re buying super high-end or hand-made artisanal clothing with traceable supply chains, like some wool clothing from the north, clothing in Argentina is hardly more ethical than fast or average paced fashion anywhere else.

I dont really shop in chain stores, here or elsewhere.
But I have been in textile manufacturing plants here in Argentina, and worn clothes made from the fabrics they make.
I was in a Jeans factory 2 weeks ago in the Conurbano, and the idea that its 100% human exploitation wasnt what I have seen. The employees are all drinking mate, listening to futbol or cumbia on their personal radios, and a far cry from the 10,000 workers in Vietnamese or Chinese factories.
I have met several owners of clothing plants here who do not resemble your descriptions at all.
I was in a knitting factory in Mar Del Plata a few weeks ago, too- happy, healthy looking workers, running modern cnc knitting machines, in a nice small family owned factory, making very high quality sweaters from excellent argentine wool, alpaca, and even cashemere. One of several dozen such plants in MDQ.
I know a couple dozen designers who work with individual sewers and knitters, as well as small contract shops.
Argentine workers get unions, feriados, jubilado benefits, and annual government mandated cost of living increases- none of which occur in Bangladesh.
I have at least a dozen pairs of Argentine made shoes going on 14 years now, still look great, from several different manufacturers.
I have Argentine made undies on right now over 5 years old, washed a million times, and the elastic is still good.
I have been sewing, myself, since the sixties, and have made clothing myself- and I think that a big part of people's gripes is that they are used to the cheap mass market stuff, and dont know how to shop for quality.

 

[antipodean]

I dont really shop in chain stores, here or elsewhere.
But I have been in textile manufacturing plants here in Argentina, and worn clothes made from the fabrics they make.
I was in a Jeans factory 2 weeks ago in the Conurbano, and the idea that its 100% human exploitation wasnt what I have seen. The employees are all drinking mate, listening to futbol or cumbia on their personal radios, and a far cry from the 10,000 workers in Vietnamese or Chinese factories.
I have met several owners of clothing plants here who do not resemble your descriptions at all.
I was in a knitting factory in Mar Del Plata a few weeks ago, too- happy, healthy looking workers, running modern cnc knitting machines, in a nice small family owned factory, making very high quality sweaters from excellent argentine wool, alpaca, and even cashemere. One of several dozen such plants in MDQ.
I know a couple dozen designers who work with individual sewers and knitters, as well as small contract shops.
Argentine workers get unions, feriados, jubilado benefits, and annual government mandated cost of living increases- none of which occur in Bangladesh.
I have at least a dozen pairs of Argentine made shoes going on 14 years now, still look great, from several different manufacturers.
I have Argentine made undies on right now over 5 years old, washed a million times, and the elastic is still good.
I have been sewing, myself, since the sixties, and have made clothing myself- and I think that a big part of people's gripes is that they are used to the cheap mass market stuff, and dont know how to shop for quality.

That’s all great, but these kind of manufacturers exist almost everywhere in the developed(ish) world if you make an effort to look for them. The sad part however is that they are still not mainstream fashion here or anywhere in the world meaning their social impact is minimal. Most people who can afford it want and wear the high-street brands, local or foreign, they see in malls etc.

And given Argentina imports far more textiles than it exports or produces, both in raw material and finished products, it simply nullifies any argument about the benefits of protectionism for this sector or any suggestion that clothes despite their higher price in Argentina are generally more “ethical”. The lack of serious competition in the sector just makes it worse as it leads to exploitation of consumers as well (who in this country as we all know have very limited finances and cannot / should not pay such high prices for decent clothing) thanks to outrageous high-street margins.

While no one is comparing an Argentine worker with a Bangladeshi worker, if you ask the happy Mate drinking Cumbia listening Argentine worker how their finances are and take a peak into their homes, you will realize that they are not so happy afterall even with paritarias, feriados and a minimal monthly retirement pension. Working (or retired) poor is working (or retired) poor, like that McDonalds worker in the US needing food-stamps just to survive their wages.

 

[Ries]

That’s all great, but these kind of manufacturers exist almost everywhere in the developed(ish) world if you make an effort to look for them. The sad part however is that they are still not mainstream fashion here or anywhere in the world meaning their social impact is minimal. Most people who can afford it want and wear the high-street brands, local or foreign, they see in malls etc.

And given Argentina imports far more textiles than it exports or produces, both in raw material and finished products, it simply nullifies any argument about the benefits of protectionism for this sector or any suggestion that clothes despite their higher price in Argentina are generally more “ethical”. The lack of serious competition in the sector just makes it worse as it leads to exploitation of consumers as well (who in this country as we all know have very limited finances and cannot / should not pay such high prices for decent clothing) thanks to outrageous high-street margins.

While no one is comparing an Argentine worker with a Bangladeshi worker, if you ask the happy Mate drinking Cumbia listening Argentine worker how their finances are and take a peak into their homes, you will realize that they are not so happy afterall even with paritarias, feriados and a minimal monthly retirement pension. Working (or retired) poor is working (or retired) poor, like that McDonalds worker in the US needing food-stamps just to survive their wages.

we have an essential political difference here. as someone who has worked in and around manufacturing in the USA for 50 years, I have seen "competition", which really means corporate theft, destroy american manufacturing, with zero benefit to the working class.
I know workers, retailers, manufacturers, and other people in Argentina who still make things here, on a much larger scale than remains in the USA, as a percentage of either the market or the population, although obviously less in population or gross sales numbers.
And I, as well as many of the Argentines I know, prefer this lack of "competition" to the Walmart/Amazon world which exists elsewhere.

 

[Ries]

I should add that my viewpoint is based on having worked in factories, having been an employer since 1984, having been a corporation for over 20 years, and a business owner since about 1980, having made and sold clothing both here and in the USA, having been involved in retail and wholesale on a small scale all my life, and having known a LOT of small manufacturers in both countries for decades. My experience is ground level, making and selling things, not armchair economics expertise. I also really like clothes, and pay a lot of attention to how and where things are made. YMMV.

 

[antipodean]

It’s fantastic you know where and what to look for. Perhaps you could provide some tips on what mainstream Argentine brands for day to day clothes that appeal to younger people (not special interest items like Leather Jackets or Leather Shoes) that are 100% Argentine sourced, manufactured and exploitation free that would you recommend aside from the ubiquitous (and “offending”):
- El Burgués
- Rochas
- Equus
- Etequeta Negra
- Bowen
- Bensimon
- Tascani
- Bolivia etc etc etc (or equivalent ladies brands)

Perhaps, if the above kind of ubiquitous local brands were forced to make an effort in things like original design, high quality manufacturing (like sewing seams that won’t break after a few washes) or using high quality materials (like Argentine wool or cotton) then they would attract buyers wanting something other than Inditex in order to be able to exist side by side in a more competitive market both here and abroad, even if they continued to have a higher price point. If they cannot be competitive based on their merits then what value do these mainstream brands actually bring to the table to merit their dominance in the local market? (Aside from to their individual owners, many of whom actually live in José Ignacio and Miami….)

 

[Silvie]

I don't buy any clothes here, I find them too expensive and I don't like most of what I see so I usually bring more affordable clothes when I travel to Uruguay, Rome, New York, etc.

 

[Bon]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments. Great discussion so far

You should visit Avenida Avellaneda, (the street in CABA, not the town out in the province)

Many thanks Redpossum. Will check it out

I'm about 2M tall so most clothes don't fit me here anyways so I just pay the insane duties to import (during COVID)

That is tough Quilombo. Could be cheaper to make your own haha

The other side of the coin is that current textile fast fashion is unsustainable

You are right but I tend to believe the world is constantly looking for change and improvements constantly. As I said though, clothes are necessities and in theory, an industry which should be perfectly competitive, even for non-sweatshop oriented stalls. Unfortunately you are right, Argentina is not a free market.

I think thats a good thing, and most of my household goods and clothing are Industria Argentina

Ideally, that would be where I want to start. Not interested in the international brands. Hence looking for recommendations. Thanks for your inputs. U.S. is just a different animal where the outlet brands are completely adapted for any hedonistic customers (not all, but definitely many).

You can get on the mailing list of mariamaranessi.com for her weekly announcements.

Wow, thanks. I will check it out.

quality was even half of that from South Asia

Agree. It really varies. Sometimes the quality can differ from international to household to boutique brands. Never know until try and tested.

With that said as with anywhere else in the world, unless you’re buying super high-end or hand-made artisanal clothing with traceable supply chains, like some wool clothing from the north, clothing in Argentina is hardly more ethical than fast or average paced fashion anywhere else.

Totally. It's difficult to be ethical. We can try but organisations/companies/businesses do what they have to meet their bottom lines. Even many fast fashion outlets have gone bust these years. But anyway, I am not aiming to be a philosopher or economist. Right now, I am hoping to know a few good local shops to get the basics and I will be more than happy. Thanks!

That’s all great, but these kind of manufacturers exist almost everywhere in the developed(ish) world if you make an effort to look for them. The sad part however is that they are still not mainstream fashion here or anywhere in the world meaning their social impact is minimal. Most people who can afford it want and wear the high-street brands, local or foreign, they see in malls etc.

And given Argentina imports far more textiles than it exports or produces, both in raw material and finished products, it simply nullifies any argument about the benefits of protectionism for this sector or any suggestion that clothes despite their higher price in Argentina are generally more “ethical”. The lack of serious competition in the sector just makes it worse as it leads to exploitation of consumers as well (who in this country as we all know have very limited finances and cannot / should not pay such high prices for decent clothing) thanks to outrageous high-street margins.

While no one is comparing an Argentine worker with a Bangladeshi worker, if you ask the happy Mate drinking Cumbia listening Argentine worker how their finances are and take a peak into their homes, you will realize that they are not so happy afterall even with paritarias, feriados and a minimal monthly retirement pension. Working (or retired) poor is working (or retired) poor, like that McDonalds worker in the US needing food-stamps just to survive their wages.

Importing more textiles does not necessarily mean that a country cannot impose protectionism policies. A country can import commodities even with protectionist policy to protect their own domestic production/value-added industries. For example, China imports more commodities than it exports (due to domestic production lower than domestic consumption, I reckon this is the case for textiles in Argentina) but China still imposes a large amount of protectionist policies.

At the end of the day, I agree we really cannot compare country to country, and yes many locals complain about their finances but feel like the discussion is now heading towards a political or economical one now! I do think in general Argentineans still know how to enjoy life and find their own happiness especially alongside their family and friends, something I feel is extremely important in the chase of improving the material quality of our lives.

Perhaps you could provide some tips on what mainstream Argentine brands for day to day clothes that appeal to younger people (not special interest items like Leather Jackets or Leather Shoes) that are 100% Argentine sourced, manufactured and exploitation free that would you recommend aside from the ubiquitous (and “offending”):

Perfect. Let me have a look. Thanks Antipodean.